Harnessing the Superpower of Boldness

Intro  0:03  
Welcome to the Heart Soul Wisdom podcast, a journey of self discovery and transformation. Moira Sutton and her amazing guests share real life stories, tools and strategies to inspire and empower you to create and live your best life. Come along on the journey and finally blast through any fears, obstacles and challenges that have held you back in the past so you can live your life with the joy, passion and happiness that you desire. Now, here's your Create the Life you Love Host, Empowerment Life Coach, Moira Sutton

Moira  0:59  
Welcome to season three, Episode 52, Harnessing the Superpower of boldness with our very special guest, entrepreneur, speaker and author Fred Joyal.  Fred is a business advisor and number one Amazon Best Selling Author. He co-founded the most successful dentists referral service in the country, 1-800-DENTIST, which, in his 30 years as CEO generated over 1 billion in revenue. Along with this achievement, he has also been awarded the Conrad Hilton Distinguished Entrepreneur Award by Loyola Marymount University. He has written two best selling books for his industry and written and appeared in over 200 television and radio commercials. Wow! 

Fred lectures and writes on his approach to developing the superpower of boldness, called the Pride Method. It's based on his latest book, SUPERBOLD. Fred teaches a systematic way for anyone to radically increase their boldness and confidence to remarkable levels in a very short time. Having started as a very shy person in his youth, Fred pushed himself to become bolder, and has met amazing people started successful businesses. And he can speak to audiences of 5,000 people or more with huge energy and enthusiasm. So without further ADIEU, it is my pleasure to welcome Fred Joyal. Welcome, Fred!

Fred  2:29  
Thanks, Moira. I'm excited to be here.

Moira  2:31  
Yeah, Wow, this boldness thing, we were just speaking just before we're taping, there's a lot of people here that would love to know how to increase their confidence, their courage, their boldness, their commitment. So we're going to touch a lot of those themes today for sure.

Fred  2:47  
Yes, it's something I'm very passionate about, because it's something I taught myself. And I want people to know that it is something you can learn. It's not something you're necessarily just born with, which is the giant misconception that people have. It's like, oh, they're always been like this. And they're always going to be like this. And I could never be like this. Well, you can.

Moira  3:09  
Yeah, that's a really good thing, because it's your story. And you know, let's just start there, you know, you were a very shy person in your youth. And when did you really began to push yourself to become bolder, and, and then you had amazing doors open, you met amazing people, you created these businesses, and you started to speak later in life to these large audiences with energy and enthusiasm. So when was that moment, that kind of aha moment, that trajectory, that turning on the road, sort of like this choice, or this choice? What happened?

Fred  3:39  
I think, you know, I was very frustrated by my shyness and my under confidence and the missed opportunities that kept stacking up, but I couldn't figure out how to overcome them. And then, when I got started in the ad business, which was in my late 20s, that's when I really found my tribe, because I didn't know what I wanted to do. But as soon as I walked into an ad agency, I said, Oh, these are my people, I can do this. And it required me to be boldly creative. So I expanded on what was already my life skill, which was was writing and, and then eventually, I had to back it up with the confidence to pitch my creative ideas to the clients. And I got really good at it and I and it was just a tremendous feedback loop a positive one for just being a little bit crazy, a little, you know, just really being dynamic and energetic and confident about my ideas. And so I just started developing that and applying it through the rest of my life in and just basically pushing myself through my discomfort and not listening to all the things in my head that my, you know, the I call it doctor no, we have voices in our head just telling us, oh, you're not worthy, you don't belong here you're not smart enough, you're not tall enough, you're not whatever the heck it is, you're gonna fail at this, they're gonna laugh at you, you're gonna be humiliated, you'll be embarrassed. We got all this stuff going on. And bold people, sometimes they hear it, sometimes they don't, but they don't listen, they proceed. And they step up, and they choose action, and are rewarded for it. And I started to get rewarded for it. So I said, I've got to start just applying this more and more to my life. And and that led to starting my own business, which had a dozen bold requirements, you got to go out and knock on doors, to find customers. You've got to create every aspect of the business; you've got to learn how to lead people without ever knowing how, never having done it before. So that turning point was certainly the getting into advertising. But then it blossomed into my, you know, I went into my personal life and everywhere, and I realized that this was a superpower that I wanted to nurture and develop. And so that's what I've been doing forever, ever since.

Moira  6:30  
Forever. Wow. So how do you define the difference between boldness and confidence because it takes confidence to work through your fears and limiting beliefs, and you know, that breakthrough from that structure?

Fred  6:42  
Yeah, and that's your confidence can be expanded. But Boldness is confidence in action. Confidence is how you feel in any situation, you feel confident here confident enough to act, but the boldness is the actions is not just because there's a bunch of people walk around, they feel very confident, but they don't do anything. So that confidence kind of wasted. And many people are confident in certain situations or with certain groups of people, their you know, their family, their co workers, but put them on stage, or put them at a party where they don't know people or put them in a foreign country, or they see somebody they really want to meet, whether it's a famous athlete or actor or business person, and their confidence disappears. What boldness people have done is built their boldness muscles, so they don't hesitate. They act. They leap right in, and good things happen. And they develop the social skills that go along with it, because they're not nervous, they're not anxious. They're they behave, they treat everybody like normal people. And it makes a huge difference.

Moira  8:03  
I think also with the boldness and what you're saying, there's many times I've stepped in to do something and I don't know what the outcome is, or, you know, that, where you - I don't have it now - but the fear of failure and all that stuff, and you know, looking good looking bad and allowing other people to be the ones who really say who you are. No, you have your internal, who you are, where you're developing. But to know also, if you stepped into something, it might not work. You know, when I used to speak in front of audiences and Cliff and I, my my partner there, we spoke on cruise ships for a while. And we've even did one together, which is really bold, because the other person stepped into and said, That's my line, you know, but if I ever forgot something speaking to audiences that they'd say, did you just forget that? And I said, yeah, when I get into an emotion, sometimes I just go blank and just to be real and authentic. And we know that, oh, I'll learn from that. Or maybe it'll happen again, but not take that. So seriously. I want to know this, the story that you have, because when you talked about people you met and these amazing people and doors that open. So you have two stories there. First of all, the one about playing chess with Sir Richard Branson; Cliff and I are big chess players. And I thought, wow, how did that happen? I just I think it'd be a fun story. And you spent two days with Robin Williams at a time when you weren't bold. So let's look at the those two stories for a minute. Cuz I think it'd be fun for the listeners.

Fred  9:26  
Yeah, and they are good examples of both sides of the coin, the inaction and the action. And so I was with a group of business people on Necker Island, which is one of the islands that Richard owns in the British Virgin Islands. And he he rents out Necker Island to small groups of people; he can only have about 30 people there. But it's this spectacular place. And sometimes he's there and sometimes he's not It depends if his wife is off visiting her friends that he'll bounce over to Necker Island from his island and hang out with us sometimes. So we were there. And we were all playing tennis, and he was playing tennis, you know, in and out with everybody. And I ruptured my Achilles tendon playing. And basically, I called my surgeon and he said, Well, don't put any weight on it. But there's no reason to fly home, because it's not going to heal. So, you know, this was the beginning of the vacation. So I was there. I was there five more days. And so I'm sitting on the couch by the tennis court watching people play. And Richard has heard that I've injured myself. And so he comes over and he goes, Oh, it's such a bother that this has happened to you. Do you happen to play chess? And then, now, I hadn't played chess in 40 years. And so normal, shy, Fred would have, you know, oh, well, I don't want I'm not going to play that, well, I'm going to lose right away. It's going to be embarrassing. I didn't go that way. I went, Yeah, I play chess. And so he waves to somebody says, Bring us a chess board, bring us a chess board. He sits down with me. And I play such an unorthodox game, because I'm so out of practice, that he can't figure out what the hell I'm doing. And I ended up beating him. And he just looks at the board. And he goes, he goes - you and he calls me this horrible name. Hi immediately resets the board to play again. Yeah. And then we just started talking about politics, because I have learned over the years to treat everybody, like a normal human being instead of like, you know, put them on a pedestal and then get weird, like a lot of people do. And a lot of people with Richard, they start interviewing him, or they start pitching him, or even asking for money for their businesses. I mean, it's horrifying. And so I just chatted with him about all sorts of stuff. He's an incredible - he's one of the people I admire most in the world, let me just start there for his generosity, and his leadership and his his accomplishments. And he's a very playful person. And he's very serious about having impact on the world. So we get into heavy discussions in politics. And, and then we would be at dinner, and he would show up for the dinner. And he'd say, Fred, Fred, sit sit across from me. And people were saying, well, he, you're, you're hogging Richard, you know, like, no he's asked me to sit with him, you know. And because I knew how to he knew he could have normal, engaging conversations with me. So it was all just because of that one word. Yes. And that's, that made all the difference in, you know, and I've seen him three times since and he immediate goes, you need to get a chess board. And we start. And so that's, I treasure that, because he's an amazing guy. And it's rekindled my love of chess as well. But the other story is, I was with a friend of mine. And she invited me to go on this ski trip with a bunch of people that were renting a condominium in Lake Tahoe. And it was about a dozen people. And one of the people was Robin Williams, and his two young children. His children were nine and 10, or 10, and 14, something like that. And, and I didn't engage him in all of that time.

And which was ridiculous, because it was the most casual of settings. But I allowed myself to be so in awe of him that I didn't have what I've learned to do, which is to have a normal conversation. And, but also express admiration. I can do that because he in my mind he was in two of my favorite movies of all time, Goodwill Hunting and Dead Poets Society. And I considered Dead Poets Society, a perfect movie. And I had the opportunity to tell him that. Now do you think he would have went with stop bothering me? Or he would have said, that's, that's a wonderful thing to hear. Thank you so much. I'm so proud of that movie. That's of course what he would have said. But I never vocalized it with - I was with him for three days. In and out, you know, we were having meals together. We played charades together, and I still didn't do it. And, and when he died, that's, that's when it really hit me. I just said, Wow, I never got a chance to tell him, and now I'm never gonna get a chance to tell him. And that was that was kind of shocking in a way. And it reminded me you know, once again, you don't have - sometimes you get one opportunity to say what you ought to say, or what you want to say or try what you want to try. And, and this is what bold people know is as you were talking about already, is, you're going to fail sometimes. But as long as you tried, you're going to be okay with yourself. It's the not trying, that's going to gnaw at you later in life, especially the number one thing people talk about in their last days are all the things they didn't do. Not that not the things they did that they regret it. They say I should have done this; I should have fixed my relationship with my, with my brother, you know; I should I should have called my my grandchildren more and gone on vacation with them instead of working all the time. You know, they list all of these things that they should have done, not oh, I you know, I lost money in my business. Big deal. They could care less about any of the failures at that point. It's it's a, it's a powerful life lesson to learn as early as possible.

Moira  16:32  
So let's look at the regrets. So feeling of regret, which is a really low energy. It's not even sadness, it's like really deep down there. What advice would you give to somebody who may be right now saying that, like they're at whatever age they are in their life? Like probably not in their 20s? Let's say they're in their maybe late 40s? I would say more like 50s or 60s or something? And they're saying, oh, like you just said I you know, I regret that I didn't do that I'm not going to have that chance again. Or maybe they don't have their health now. And that's key, your health and well being, what would you say to people that they're at that place, and they don't think they can have now what they want, because because of whatever, whatever the story is, and I'm not saying that with a judgmental in it. Because, you know, if you don't have your health, you can't maybe go skiing anymore. Like maybe you don't have strong legs or whatever. But what would you say to somebody who might be in a position that they're saying, I really still want that. But I don't know. You know, I have regret that I didn't do that then and maybe they still want it if they revisit that. What's your advice there?

Fred  17:38  
I'd say get angry about it. That that you know that? That your lack of boldness, your lack of taking action, has created a stack of regrets. There's stuff that gets away, you know. Hey, you maybe you can't go skiing anymore. That's one thing. Here's another thing. Maybe you you didn't eulogize your parents when they died because you didn't, you're afraid of public speaking. You don't get another and there's nothing that that you can do to get that moment back. And that's an example. But there are there will there will be dozens of moments in your life that are critical and pivotal. And the window is going to open and close. And it could open and close in a matter of minutes or a matter of seconds. Yeah, I would the embarrassment for me is I have three days with Robin Williams. The window was wide open for three days, and I didn't do anything. But there are many times where it's like, Hey, do you want to do this? Do you want to try this? And you know, well, I don't know. And when that person just goes, Well, nevermind. I'm not going to try to talk you into it. And then everybody goes and has an amazing adventure. And they go up to the Arctic Circle. And you you sit comfortably at home saying yep, I should have done that. So you're going to have to say, What am I not getting to what's important now that I must get to? Since I've missed these things, and I'm not going to get to some of them. And I always the thing I say to people is we're in the game of life. The problem is, we don't know how long the coach is going to let us play. So you got to play full out because at any moment, there's a buzzer and you're you're out of the game. And so you need to give yourself permission to have the life you want. Nobody else you don't need permission from everybody else where a lot of us are waiting for that. And that's that's just letting the clock run out. That's you've benched yourself at that point. To carry the sports metaphor through. Don't do that. Be frustrated. Be angry. Say, I'm not going to, this is not going to happen any more. And then go for what is important, knowing that it may not work. You may not be good at it and you may, you may not get all the way where you want to go, but at least you'll have tried. I mean, go back to Richard Branson. I met his mom on one of the weekends that I that I was with him. She was in her 90s. And he had told me, he said, You know, it's so funny that she's here because she she was I tried to get her here, her here for the whole week. And she said, Richard, I can't. I'm learning Spanish. He's laughing he's like, What the heck is she learning Spanish for? But that's the way she was. She was and and I'll talk about one of the most inspiring things that happened in his life, which I immediately took on is as a young boy, she said, other people watch people do stuff. We do stuff. I thought, wow. And that's the life that he's lived. He's not watching tennis. He's not watching basketball, or or balloon racing. He's doing it. And he's not watching people go into space. He's going into space.

Moira  21:27  
Yeah, that's, that's, that's a really good one. Yeah. I forgot what Oprah says on her show. When she says that's a good one, write that down. That kind of thing. Because I met Oprah years ago, I have a picture of her and I when she did her Oprah Show, and we went back at the end and met her and she gave us t shirts, signed them, you know, took pictures with us. And, you know, talked about Toronto. I was living in Toronto at that time, and just to go meet her. And then I use it as a sort of fun media gig the picture of her and I because I always wanted a television show. And I was saying to people, there's that's Oprah on my show. And people go oh, really?

Fred  22:03  
Yeah, she's my first guest.

Moira  22:05  
No, no, no, no. But and, yeah, I think, I think for me, I'm thinking just age to, you know, for journey and tell me this with people you work with? Do you find with people who get older, there's a certain time in their life, that'd be something's happened in their life, it could be a health scare, or a death of a parent or some change, big change that happened that got their attention. And now they're living life full out. They're not they're not playing small. They're not saying, you know, I'm going to do this, or do you find that with an age group, because my listeners are all different ages.

Fred  22:42  
I think that it happens at various ages. I think we get into our 20s, and we don't want to fail anymore. Which is, you know, failure is how we learn to walk, how we learn to talk, how we, how we learn to write and read. And it didn't feel good to not be good at stuff. There's really this this thing about, especially if you're introverted, we suffer from this pain of not being good at stuff. And actually, perfectionism will keep us from trying anything, because I'm not good enough at it yet. I know they won't sing karaoke, which everybody's having a great time. Half of them have average voice, or some of them have a horrible voice. They don't care. And they're thinking, Oh, I don't I don't have like a good enough voice to go onstage. And I'll say to them, like, are you not listening? Do they look embarrassed to you? We're looking at them. And we're going, Wow, that was amazingly off key. But look at how enthusiastically they sang that song. You're worried about being judged, when nobody else is going to put any energy into that, except you; you're going to turn it into embarrassment and humiliation and keep from having fun doing it. And I think this happens it early on, for a lot of people. And they find a safe job; they find a safe group of friends and they and they they aim for the comfort zone and  they're avoiding that feeling of anxiety of not knowing of potentially failing. And, you know, I've worked a lot in the medical field. And there's a whole bunch of dentists who won't try any new technology, because it's going to slow them down and they're going to make mistakes and they're gonna hurt some patients and stuff like and, and meanwhile, there's other dentists who are embracing technology and it makes them better dentists, delivering better care faster, and often more affordably. Just because they embrace the technology knowing that it was gonna be harder to do in the first weeks or even months that they're doing it. And so it's it's really at every age group. But there's there's moments of, if they're lucky, there's an epiphany where they just say, Wow, I had one shot at that, and I missed it. You know, I could have asked for that promotion. And I didn't. And the guy one level below me, pitched himself and got the job. And now I work for him. And and that's, that's a hard enough smack where you say, what, what am I doing? And then you know, and it's sometimes it's a birthday, you turn 40, you turn 50? And you say, what the heck? How much? How much time is on the clock? On average? You know, at 50, you got 30 years. And they know how at 50 You know how fast 50 went by? So how fast is 30 gonna go by? And the answer is faster. 

Moira  25:52  
It is faster. 

Fred  25:53  
Because yeah, I mean, you and I are at this age where we go, how could it possibly have been another decade already? Yeah. It's so I think that the people, there's a spark, and you know, and sometimes they get shocked out of it. I know, when my parents split up, my dad he was all about his comfort zone. And this knocked him out of his comfort zone. He didn't have any good friends. He didn't have any close friends when he got divorced. And I didn't even understand why. But then, you know, unfortunately, at 10 years later, he passed away. And I was overwhelmed at the number of people at the funeral, who were devastated that he had passed away. His circle of friends had gone into the hundreds. At that point, he had just, he just allowed him he was like, I've got to I've got to go out into the world and meet people and do stuff. Which he, which he did. And I just thought, wow, that's what it took for him to realize how important friends were and how important my brother and I were to him. I mean, our relationship deepened significantly after the divorce. So sometimes you get shocked, but he only had 10 years of it. He could have had 40 of them.

Moira  27:24  
Ten years, really, like you said, it goes by. 

Fred  27:27  
In the blink of an eye.

Moira  27:28  
It is and you know, and I think I don't know if I told you about Cliff. His father passed there in the fall. And he was 104. And one of his things he said is, you know, life just speeds up. It just speeds up and yeah, I'm finding that more and more and so I take a meditative prayer . I call it every day. And I'm just so in appreciation for everything, all experiences, even difficult situations because there's a learning in it. And I'd like to talk about - because I think this is a nice segue from what you're talking about, with yes and different things - like you dabbled in stand up improv comedy. You said you acted - I love this - you acted in bad movies, and excellent TV commercials. You visited over 44 countries around the world. I think, wow, that's a story in itself. Tell us how improv comedy acting and traveling the world helped you further develop this boldness muscle and especially around this improv thing. Because we have had people on before and there's something about conversations with that, that I think would be nice to share.

Fred  28:36  
I think that for anyone, one of the most powerful trainings you can do for yourself is to take improv comedy classes and do them as early in life as you possibly can. Not necessarily with the intention of becoming part of an improv troupe or anything. Most people never get that far. But the way they teach improv is actually the same way that I teach boldness in my book, is if with my exercises. I have five levels of exercises in the book that start you very, very basically. Because people think, improv comedy, I could never go on stage and just create a scene with a bunch of people. Well, no, you couldn't just walk on stage and do it the first day, but they start nonverbally in the training. They build layers and layers and layers of ability, one step at a time, just the same way you'd learn a musical instrument. You wouldn't immediately join an orchestra and say, you know, can I be first violin. You're going to learn scales, you're going to learn, you know, exercises, you're going to do all of those things. But when you do improv specifically, and you realize you are are steadily expanding this ability and surprising yourself to the point where you develop these abilities to just tap into your mind and your creativity by being relaxed and energized at the same time, instead of anxious. Because when you're anxious, your memory fails you your cognitive skills are impaired, it's a fight or flight zone for your body and your brain. When you're energized, now you're tapping into your creativity. And you find that you can trust it. You can relax and say something will come. And even if the scene dies, you don't die. You say it's over. And that's the other thing that happened. When I did stand up, I realized it wasn't about the jokes. It because if a joke failed, the joke failed, I didn't fail. I went on to the next joke. And if all my jokes failed, it was - either way. And, or every joke succeeded. Either way, it was over in 10 minutes. And then we're on to the next comic. And somebody may or may not have remembered anything I said. But the ephemeral nature of it puts you in a place where you say, Wow, success or failure. Not that different in reflection, except maybe I learned while I'm not going to tell that joke, or I need to work on that joke. But I tried that joke. This is what bold people know, is that trying and failing is almost as satisfying as trying and succeeding. And way more satisfying than not trying, because not trying is incredibly unsatisfying and gnaws at you. But if you try and you Bumble it, oh, well, I tried it, and you and you, you go a lot easier on yourself. And you and you mind it and say, Yeah, that wasn't that wasn't so horrible to fail at that, I think I'll, I'll take another swing, I'll try something else I'll, I'll get back up there again. But to do improv, and learn to trust your creativity, and to find a way to turn anxiety into energy, into a positive forward motion is a transformational thing. And to now for me, when I go on stage, and I'm prepared, wow, that's a heck of a lot easier. I've got material, I don't have to think of everything. And so and it's affected every aspect of my life. And I was actually just talking to somebody who took a lot of the classes with me years ago, and he's he's running for political office right now. And he said as a journalist, he said, and now as a politician, nothing impacted my life more than improv.

Moira  33:00  
That's a huge statement. 

Fred  33:02  
Yeah. 

Moira  33:05  
So we said this at the beginning, when we introduced you that you teach a systematic way for anyone to radically increase their boldness and confidence to remarkable levels in a very short time. Do you have some exercises or, or something we can do some strategies here that we can share? And then dive right also into your Pride Method?

Fred  33:25  
Yeah, so a lot of people say, Well, where do I start? And I say, Well, it depends how socially anxious you are. If you're really socially anxious, just go outside and smile at 10 people. And register how many actually smiled back, and how many didn't and then don't take it on when they don't smile back. It's got nothing to do with you. This is the translation you have to give yourself, like, this could be the worst day of their life, or they've got bad teeth. They don't smile at anybody. And so that practice of saying, Wow, way more people smile than I thought. And it's not really my problem. If they didn't smile back. And it's the beginning of building that boldness muscle. The next step is just start to talk to strangers. And the number one thing that shy people and under confident people say, Well, I don't know what to say. And I just remind them, it's like, you're just meeting somebody, you don't have to be clever, witty, brilliant, interesting, exciting, captivating, you have to be any of that. In fact, that puts a lot of pressure on the other person to be to measure up. How about being nice? Try that. How about friendly? How about offering up a compliment? Asking a probing question instead of saying, Hey, how you doing? Which is not a question. Okay, that's a that's a greeting. Okay. What I love to say to people is you know,  a compliment, like, wow, those are those are amazing eyeglasses. They work so well on your face. Oh, well, thank you. Like, you know, I said, I keep trying to figure out my style and I can't figure it out. And away the conversation goes. Or I'll say, you know, what's what's ... basically you start with? Hi, I'm Fred, I'd really like to meet you. They're gonna say, Well, I wouldn't like to meet you. What are the odds of that happening? But that's what we act like. That's what they're gonna say. And then you just say, so tell me what's, what's the most interesting thing that happened to you in the past couple of weeks? Huge opening question. Where people can just start to talk, and then stay interested in them. Instead of offering instead of playing ping pong. This is where people fail as they think it's a ping pong match. I got to come back with something. They said. They went to Rome. I say I went to Florence. They said they, they they learned to play tennis. I say I learned to play piano. No. Instead, you say, you went to Rome? Tell me tell me more about that. What did you find? Because I went to Italy, and it rained the whole time. And I had a terrible time. What what did what was so great about Rome, because I I'd love to know. And tell me more. Tell me more.

Moira  36:24  
That opens up the conversation instead of shutting it down.

Fred  36:28  
Yeah, and you know, and you're not getting into this balancing act of like, who's more interesting, you or me? What they're feeling is, they're more interested because you are acting as if they are more interesting than you are because you're interested in them. It's, it's I mean, this is this goes back to How to Win Friends and Influence People. This is not new. If you want to be interesting, be interested in people. 

Moira  36:57  
I love that. 

Fred  36:57  
And it works wonders. And so stop putting so much pressure on yourself to be so brilliant and to be so charming and so amazing. Just be friendly.

Moira  37:09  
And I also liked the idea of when you're listening to develop listening skills, like you're saying, Did you open that conversation up? People know if somebody's really listening? Or are they just waiting to get their next line? And like, oh my god, what am I gonna say to that? So they're not even really present to be listening to you. I know my mom who's she's 94, 95 this summer; we just talked about her at the beginning. She wants to know all about you where you live and everything else. And you know, one thing you know, she was very busy as a mother in our household. We had the traditional my dad went to work my mom did the household and all that. And, you know, she's always doing doing doing. So I was in my 20s, I said to her, mom, can you just sit down so we can have a conversation? Because you're doing. Oh, I have to go do..... like she was just, it was her habit right of dishes or hoovering or whatever it was. Where it was very different with my dad. And this isn't a blame again, she was she was busy. That's just the way she was. But with my father, when people sat down, let it be at his work or at home, through the years after he passed, people still stayed in touch with my mom, and said, what a turning point it was in their life for something because my father would just sit and listen. And you knew he wasn't going anywhere. He was not going to judge anything you said or come back with something. He was purely going to be there for you. And again, I think that's a that's a very important part in communication when you know the person's present.

Fred  38:36  
Well and this is one of the things I teach in the book along with the How To Be bold and Confident I teach a bunch of social skills, do's and don'ts that a lot of people are never taught. Nobody passes on this valuable information certainly didn't with me. And one of the things I talk about is this a very simple way to make somebody feel like the most important person in the room, the most interesting person in the room. And it starts with, with what your dad does naturally and always did is you're totally present with just that person. You're not focused on anybody else. You're not looking away, you're not looking at who might be more interesting. Now, some people are so shy, they can't make eye contact, which makes you feel uninteresting to them. So you have to focus on them, actively listen to what they're saying. Instead of thinking, active listening requires you to not be thinking about what you're going to say. Because that's not - that's passively listening. You're waiting for an opening. So you can jump in with your stuff. And that's what a lot of people do. You can tell But this is where the whole Tell Me More thing comes from. It's like, you don't you don't have anything offer yet. You may decide to offer a little bit but, but you're going to actually keep them in suspense. You're going to tell them little stuff. Yeah, I was in Italy too. But tell me more about what you did. And then they'll eventually come back and go, Well, what did you do in Italy? And you're saying, Well, you know, and I hung out in the Uffizi museum quite a bit. And then I got a fascinating tour with a guy explained how the statue of David was actually in a force perspective, because they knew people were going to be looking up at it, and, and you can, then you can, but then you got to stop. Because what we also do, as we started, when we finally get a chance to talk, especially if we're shy, as we start monologuing. We go off in an unbroken stream, because somebody's finally talking to us. And you're going to stop yourself and say, I really get excited about this. But you know, I want to know what your favorite place was to eat in Rome. And you and they say, Wow, she's so aware, self aware that she knew she was going off on a tangent, she just stopped herself. That's really amazing. I want to learn to do that. And so, but it's, it's staying with somebody listening to them. And then even when you end the conversation, you stay with them, as you say, it was so great to meet you Moira. There's a couple other people I want to talk to, that I know are here. So maybe we'll get a chance to chat again later. But I really enjoyed talking with you and hearing about your trip to Rome. And then you break away. A lot of people end like  a balloon running out of air. It's like, okay, well, I'm gonna go talk to somebody else. And and they've turned away. They're saying their exit line as they're walking off stage instead of staying with the person. And that changes the whole dynamic of the conversation because they don't feel they went, Oh, this was I'm no longer interesting. And that's that last, you know, your last impression is the most lasting impression. So, stay with them. When you're breaking away,

Moira  42:12  
Yeah, I interviewed some football coaches many years ago, when I had my live TV show, and one of the - their company's called Last Play Training. And it's just what you said, the, you know, the last, that's what people remember, the last quarter of the football game. You know, it's not always the game. It's that last quarter, and I even used that speech on a Canadian sailing yacht in the Caribbean one time, I was asked to give the speech at the end. And I, I use the thing for the Last Play Training. But this is our last, you know, if we win or lose, you know, it was just fun, right? To do that. You talk about incantations, and how we can write these in our journals every day, and what results we can expect to experience with this. Let's let's hear one of your incantations and define what that is, and how people can create consistent habits to incorporate this into their daily activities.

Fred  43:08  
So the meaning of an incantation is essentially summoning a spirit. And what I'm talking about in the book is to summon this spirit in yourself by creating a definition of who you want to be, and how you want to move through the world. One of my incantations, and this is how bold people behave, and how its transformed me is I say, this, I belong everywhere. I, wherever I am, I don't decide I am not worthy to be there, I am not worthy to talk to that person, I am not worthy to be in that situation. I belong there, as a human being, I belong wherever I choose to be. If I'm meeting, I've been in rooms, where there are billionaires, and I am a fraction of their success, a tiny fraction, but I don't decide, Oh, these guys are too awesome. To even associate with. I have a normal conversation with them. Because I have decided that wherever I am, that I belong there. I am never disqualifying myself. So when you start to say, I belong everywhere, you're going to, you're going to transform yourself by that repetition by that incantation. Because you can't talk yourself out of it. You can't say I don't really belong everywhere. Because you because then you have to say to yourself, you have to ask yourself, Why am I telling myself that? Is that really true? Why don't I belong? You know, I just I had dinner last night I have dinner with these eight gentleman. It's a small men's group, every one of them is significantly more successful than me. And I, in some of them, astoundingly so. And they're all smarter, every one of them is smarter than me. But I never tell myself, I don't belong with that group. And they treat me like an equal because of it. And they laugh when I say, you know, I can, you know, I need to borrow money from you guys just to catch up to you. And it but it's all because I have made the choice. And whenever I find myself, feeling like I don't belong somewhere, I question myself, why do you? Why are you thinking that? How can that possibly be true? Why is that really true? Make make a different choice.

Moira  45:53  
By asking yourself different questions. You know, Cliff was watching a series - I haven't seen it yet - called Undercover Billionaire. So you talked about billionaires, he said that he gained a whole, totally new perspective on what boldness is, by watching this, this show and how you truly can live your life full of abundance, love, joy, peace, everything that you want. And the people on the show were billionaires, and they had to come on to that show, you couldn't use your contacts who you truly were as a billionaire, any names you knew. And you had to start creating success from $100, and a very old truck. And he said, each one of them, they just started because they're bold. They, you know, they started they walked into a town, they started saying this is what I do, like maybe somebody did soap or something, I do these oils, can I do something here, and they just like worked a few hours at maybe like a weekend thing where you go to the country with vegetables and everything the market and just start adding to pay? Or they said to somebody in town, you know, do you know somewhere I can stay in? Oh, I know. somewhere you can stay for a week, they they, they'd be happy to have it. But that boldness again, he was totally blown away. So maybe that's a show for you to watch over him because I haven't watched it yet. But I want to watch this Undercover Billionaire.

Fred  47:14  
Well, and that's that's what you realize is you know, there was a great study that was done that about whether people would be interested in talking to somebody on a New York subway. And they they said 80% of the people on the subway said they would never initiate a conversation with anyone on the subway. But 60% of them said, they would be happy to have a conversation with somebody else who initiated the conversation. 

Moira  47:42  
Wow, 

Fred  47:43  
60%. So not. So the most people, you know, four out of five people are reluctant to do it. But, you know, three out of five, would be happy to do it. A lot of people behave like nobody's going to talk to me. Whenever anybody says that they're all going to laugh, or nobody's going to be interested, I just say, how could that possibly be true? And who, whose opinion Do you really care about out of all these people. They're strangers. But we have this huge need to fit in, which goes back - it's a very primal urge to not get kicked out of the tribe, because 100,000 years ago, you died if you got kicked out of the tribe. 

Moira  48:28  
Dinosaurs and all.. 

Fred  48:29  
Deep in our programming. Bold people have figured out, you know, I can make things happen, as long as I'm not the one to stop me. Because most of us, we're the ones who stop ourselves. And both people say, I'll wait till somebody else stops me, and then we'll see how that goes. And so that's why my book is full of exercises that actually train you to do something. Walk up to a person who's sitting alone at a table in a coffee shop and say Do you mind if I sit here? expecting them to say any number of things. I'd rather you didn't. I'm really busy. And I like the table to myself. You know, I'm expecting somebody. But every time I've done it, they say sure, why not? So not only is it a 10% or 5% chance of them letting me do it. It's for me, it's been 100%. So how wrong are we when we stop ourselves? And if she said or he said, You know, I'm expecting somebody or I'd rather just sit by myself. Why would I take that on as a personal affront? I'm asking them something nuts, If I can sit with them as a stranger. So I'm I'm aiming to fail. And if I succeed, it's it's amazing. As the way I look at. But I've done it. And I don't try to engage the person or anything like that. But I've ended up having it turn into an hour long conversation with the person, very simply, very casually. And, and I've also had it where we both sit there and do our thing, and maybe say a couple of words to each other. But either way, they they didn't mind that. And if somebody came up to me, I would say, yeah, have a seat. If somebody came up to me in a restaurant, and I was eating alone, and they said, You know, I don't feel like eating alone. Do you mind If I just sit here with you and order dinner? I would say yes. I wouldn't, I wouldn't care about it. And if they engage me or didn't engage me, it wouldn't matter. And this, this is what can happen. But I've had it happen. So many times I've had this is how crazy it is. I've had it happen, where if you talk to the person long enough, you actually figure out you know, somebody in common? And that's like, wow, we're like one degree of separation. Again,

Moira  51:07  
yeah, that's gonna say six degree, but is it one degree, oh, one degree.

Fred  51:10  
You both know the same person. Wow, we're actually one degree apart. Yeah. And so and then there's other exercises that are just designed to catch yourself and see how you stop yourself, when there's no need. And it's just an exercise, all of these things are just meant to build your boldness muscle, they're not necessarily to achieve anything, they're not looking for a great outcome. And so one of the things I always recommend is, every time you see a door that says employees only go in why? Because nothing bad happens on the other side, nobody's going to beat you to death. The most they're going to do is say, this is for employees only, or can I help you or nothing, because they assume because you went in the door you belonged in there. And, and it teaches when you hear the voice in your head, oh, you can't do that there's a sign and you actually start to get anxious, like, something bad's gonna happen. Nothing bad is gonna happen. And you start to laugh and say, Wow, I really got worked up over that. And then somebody said, this is for employees only. And this is how I approach it. If somebody says, this is for employees, only, I say, Oh, I'm sorry. I am an employee, just not here. So I thought it was just a general admission thing. And they look at me like I'm crazy. Which is fine, right? Because I don't belong. Technically, I am not I shouldn't be in that room. Except I'm not going in there to steal stuff. I'm just going in there to prove to myself that nothing bad happens. And and so when you start to do stuff like that, you go, really, I am really the king of the queen of stopping myself. I need to stop stopping myself.

Moira  53:02  
You have a story in the book that I really liked, where you went into a room, you weren't invited. But you went in with the people. And then there were so many chairs. I don't know if it was a wedding or what it was, but somebody came up to you and more or less were honest, that no, you weren't invited, but you were there. And then the woman told you that, oh, there's only, you'll have to leave when the dinner comes because there's only so many chairs and you said that's okay. And and then tell tell us the end of that story. It was quite fun.

Fred  53:30  
This was basically this was a cocktail hour and a dinner for a whole bunch of these executives, and business owners, of which I was not one. But but some of them were clients of mine. But but I wasn't, I wasn't invited to this dinner. But I said, Wow, this is this bunch of people I'd like to meet here, and a couple of friends I have in the room. And so I went in, you know, just walked into the cocktail hour just started chatting with people. And everybody's kind of dressed up in jackets and ties and and I'm pretty casual. But I didn't tell myself, I didn't belong there. And another woman came up to me and said, you don't have a name tag. Can I make you a name tag? Let me let me find you on the on the list. Let me see if I've got a name tag for you. And I said, Well, actually, I'm not on the list of people. I'm just a bunch of people here that I that I know. And I just wanted to say Hi to. And that's when she said oh well. It's so she didn't say it's time to go buddy, you don't belong here. She said, Oh, well. We're going to be sitting down to dinner at a certain point and every seat is taken. So at that point, you probably won't be able to stay and I said that's fine. I don't I'm not looking for a free meal. I just wanted to say hi to a bunch of people and and she said and that was it. Never, never none another thing from her through the whole cocktail hour until the end of the cocktail hour when she came up to me and she said, You know what, we've had several people not show up for dinner. So you're welcome to stay. So then I sat at a table and got to meet, I sat at a table with a bunch of people I didn't know which was perfect, because that's that was one of my intentions was to meet a lot of these people in the industry that I didn't know. So all because I didn't decide I didn't belong there.

Moira  55:27  
And that's where opportunities that you would never expect, and you get out of your own way. And opportunities, possibilities; I talked about infinite possibilities in life, we just don't know. But it's important to decide kind of what we want. And like you said, start creating the spool this muscle, and your book is full jam packed with wonderful exercises. And, you know, I went through your book, thank you very much for that Fred.

Fred  55:52  
You're very welcome.

Moira  55:51  
Yeah. And I also like things like, one thing Cliff and I were looking at was, you know, write down things that that you've accomplished and done. And then I forgot about a lot of this stuff, like from skydiving to selling everything living on a sailboat in the islands to... I didn't forget that one. That's with me every day. But, you know, the skydiving one and some other ones, I just thought, Oh, I forgot that I did that. And so made a list, and then we start started, but we're gonna get into more, writing what it is you want to achieve. And that boldness has to go out and create it and co-create it. That's, that's very exciting. So your, your book's wonderful. I am going to have that link below so people can go. But let's, let's go into that you're going to talk about that, you know, for you to share the gift you'd like to share with our listeners today. And again, all the links to how you can connect up with Fred. And your gift will be below in the show notes. So this has been great Fred. I feel like I've just sort of like sort of cut you off there. But I also know that well,

We could we could go on for a while. We have to be fair to the listeners as well. The most we can do is whet their appetite as it is and hopefully give them a few insights into themselves and make them interested in trying to transform themselves. 

For sure. 

Fred  57:04  
So that I'm really easy to find. I'm Fred Joyal at everything, whether it's Facebook or Instagram or LinkedIn, or my website is fredjoyal.com. And of course, the book is available on Amazon. It's in Kindle. It's in audible with me reading the book and it's in hardcover. So it's very accessible. And if you go to my website, you can download the first chapter of the book.

Moira  57:35  
And I think you're thinking about giving a little PDF of your 10 favorite books, which really reflects you and who you are as an individual and how those books have impacted your life. And I think that would be interesting. Also for the audience.

Fred  57:49  
Yes and I'm gonna compile that I have it because people keep asking me, what books do you recommend the most? And it's always the last book I read. And I have trouble remembering the rest. But there are you know, some some like Simon Sinek's book, Leaders Eat Last and Chris Voss' book Never Split the Difference. These books to me are are amazing life skill books, and then going to, you know, Victor Frankel's book Man's Search for Meaning. I mean, these are a book by an Auschwitz survivor about the meaning of life is, you know, it's incredibly powerful and inspiring to read and learn from. So I will put together my current top 10. And then my book is number 11. In it, so I'm working my way up, I'm trying to work up into my own top 10, but I'm not there yet.

Moira  58:52  
I think I have a funny feeling you're gonna get there. So, Fred, I wanted to first of all, thank you very much. I also have started to invite our listeners to be part of this growing community. The whole thing about the show is to inspire empower you to live your best life, and to raise the consciousness and vibration of the planet to heal humanity and Mother Earth. And, you know, please share rate it on iTunes and subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes or episodes like today with Fred who's an expert on super bold and from under confident to charismatic in 90 days. Fred you also wrote in your book, one part here is someone who realizes that they have a greater ability to have an impact to contribute more and improve the world around them and the lives of the people they meet. I want this because this world needs bold people more than ever. That's, that's one of the little gem wisdoms, among so many in Fred's book. Fred, thank you for sharing from your heart and soul your wisdom on harnessing the superpower of boldness.

Namaste

Outro  1:00:08  
Thank you for listening to the Heart Soul Wisdom podcast with Moira Sutton. I hope you enjoyed today's episode, please join our community at moirasutton.com. And continue the discussion on our Facebook page Create the Life you Love. You will be part of a global movement connecting with other heart centered people who are consciously creating the life they love on their own terms. Together we can raise our consciousness for the greater good of humanity and for our planet.