Heart Soul Wisdom Podcast

The Transformational Power of Psychedelics

February 13, 2023 Moira Sutton Season 4 Episode 71
Heart Soul Wisdom Podcast
The Transformational Power of Psychedelics
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Show Notes Transcript

The Transformational Power of Psychedelics

Love & Relationships
Health & Well Being
Freedom and Fulfilment
Passion and Purpose

Matt received his Master of Science in Psychology and Neuroscience of Mental Health with honors from King's College London. He is the author of Psychedelics for Everyone and the Co-Founder of HAPPŸŸ, a mental wellness company that specializes in psychedelic-assisted oral ketamine therapy along with digital therapeutics that promote life-transforming outcomes. He is passionate for mental health treatments and speaks as often as he can about the transformational power of psychedelic medicine. 

He frames mental health treatments through a lens of growth, empowerment, and positive psychology. His refreshing perspective invites others to explore and grow their inner world.  

In Matt’s book "Psychedelics for Everyone: A Beginner's Guide to these Powerful Medicines for Anxiety, Depression, Addiction, PTSD, and Expanding Consciousness" became a #1 Amazon bestseller in 19 categories.

In his work, he attempts to share what he has learned with the world so everybody can make the best possible decisions concerning psychedelics' use, research, and legislation. 

Legal Disclaimer "Editor's Note from "Psychedelics for Everyone"

Editor’s note from “Psychedelics for Everyone”.
This book relates the authors’ research and, in some cases, self-experimentation with various psychedelic medicines.  It is a criminal offense in the United States and many countries, punishable by imprisonment and or fines, to manufacture, possess, or supply some of these medicines.  This book is therefore intended to provide readers with information but does not encourage illegal activity, including but not limited to the unlawful sale, purchase, or use of controlled substances.

Please do not treat this book as medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.  Talk to your medical provider about your specific health-related questions.  Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have read in this book.  The same thing is true regarding legal information.  This book is not to be considered legal advice.  If that is what you are looking for, please talk to an attorney.

Heart Soul Wisdom Disclaimer

Website: https://www.mattzemon.com/

Gift: To the first 3 people who listen to this episode and like, share, rate and subscribe.  Then email Moira to let her know ~ moira@moirasutton.com to share this, Matt will gift you with a hard copy or e-book of his book.

Moira's Website: https://moirasutton.com/

Create the Life you Love FB Community: https://www.facebook.com/CreatetheLifeyouLove1/

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[00:03] Intro: Welcome to the Heart Soul Wisdom Podcast, a journey of self-discovery and transformation. Moira Sutton and her amazing guests share real life stories, tools, and strategies to inspire and empower you to create and live your best life. Come along on the journey and finally blast through any fears, obstacles and challenges that have held you back in the past so you can live your life with the joy, passion, and happiness that you desire. Now, here's your host. Create the life you love. Empowerment life Coach, Moira Sutton.

Legal Disclaimer:

Editor’s note from “Psychedelics for Everyone”.

This book relates the authors’ research and, in some cases, self-experimentation with various psychedelic medicines.  It is a criminal offense in the United States and many countries, punishable by imprisonment and or fines, to manufacture, possess, or supply some of these medicines.  This book is therefore intended to provide readers with information but does not encourage illegal activity, including but not limited to the unlawful sale, purchase, or use of controlled substances.

Please do not treat this book as medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.  Talk to your medical provider about your specific health-related questions.  Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have read in this book.  The same thing is true regarding legal information.  This book is not to be considered legal advice.  If that is what you are looking for, please talk to an attorney.


[01:03] Moira: Welcome to Season 4, Episode 71, the Transformational Power of Psychedelics with our special guest, psychedelic medicine advocate, author, collaborative leader, and entrepreneur Matt Zeeman. Matt received his Master of Science in Psychology and Neuroscience of Mental Health with honors from King's College in London. He's the author of Psychedelics for Everyone and the co founder of Happy, a mental wellness company that specializes in psychedelic assisted oral ketamine therapy along with digital therapeutics that promote life transforming outcomes. He's passionate for mental health treatments and speaks as often as he can about the transformational power of psychedelic medicine. He frames mental health treatments through a lens of growth, empowerment, and positive psychology. His refreshing perspective invites others to explore and grow their inner world. In Matt's book Psychedelics for Everyone, a beginner's guide to these powerful medicines for anxiety, depression, addiction, PTSD and expanding consciousness became a number one Amazon bestseller in 19 categories. In his work, he attempts to share what he has learned personally with the world so everybody can make their own best possible decisions concerning psychedelics, use research and legislation. So without further ado, it is my pleasure to introduce you to Matt Seaman. Welcome, Matt.


[02:32] Matt: Moira, it's good to be here.


[02:34] Moira: Yeah, this would be interesting because this is a whole new world for me and I have had people on that talked about the Ayahuasca, so I'm learning. For me it's a little nervous so it's going to be interesting as you talk about myths maybe that are out there around this and we're going to start with your journey and just dive in, let's see where it all goes.


[03:01] Matt: I'd love you to just even start. Tell me where the nervousness is coming from.


[03:08] Moira: I don't know, I don't smoke cigarettes. I think of drugs. Maybe when I think of this, maybe that's it for me. I have maybe a thing about drugs or LSD when I was younger, people like hippies or something. There must be something in there with a police officer. I do drink wine, I like wine.


[03:28] Matt: So that drug is okay. These other drugs make you nervous. That makes sense.


[03:31] Moira: Yeah.


[03:32] Matt: Feeling, yeah, yeah.


[03:34] Moira: And you know, when I was younger, as I said, my, my birthday is next week, I'm going to be 64, which is a one, which is a ten and equals a one which is new beginning. So that's kind of exciting in many aspects and yeah, I remember going to parties when I was 18 and that and people would like be smoking pot or doing something off of the stove and it made me nervous, like, you know, I was like, what are they doing? And was 18, but yeah. So, what do you think of that and myths and fears that are out there?


[04:04] Matt: It's interesting. So, you were actually born when many of these psychedelic medicines were still legal. For many of us, anyone born kind of 1971, until today, we've lived our whole lives in a, in a prohibition and we've only been, we've been fed this information about how psychedelics are bad for you, they're going to fry your brain, they're going to lead to addiction, there's no medicinal use. And our government has just told us this again and again and again and again. I think you had the same campaign we had down here with the Just Say no with the frying pan and the egg up there, is that correct?


[04:45] Moira: I don't know what that is. Tell me what that is, Matt.


[04:48] Matt: We had this television campaign all through the or 80s with a frying pan and it was like, this is your brain. And then they would drop an egg into it and you see the egg sizzling. This is your brain on drugs. Just say no. This is terrifying.


[05:05] Moira: Yeah, no, I don't remember that.


[05:08] Matt: Okay, it was popular down here, but it's hard when all we've been told is these are bad, there's no medicinal use. And we have 50 years of being told that to now all of a sudden be told, oh, well, we didn't really mean that, or that wasn't really based on science. There are some political reasons for that, and I think the research kind of speaks for itself and how powerful and effective these drugs can be for many positive things.


[05:40] Moira: Okay, we are going to dive into that because one of my big things and the question that I have and a lot of the things that I wrote here as I was doing my own research for this and yes, your book, as we just said before we started, is jam packed with references and major. It's like science reading it, but the safeness of psychedelics. And one of my questions as I'm reading through this all the time, I know you address it, is can a person become addicted to it?


[06:09] Matt: Yeah, that's one of the top questions that I hear. There's lots of different studies out there on just drugs compared to drugs. And I like to frame that because we don't think about things like alcohol or tobacco as drugs. But with these studies, when they talk about what does the most harm to self or others or and others. On the far-left hand side, way up there on the top of that list, are things like alcohol and tobacco. Lots and lots of harm to yourself, lots of harm to others. And all the way on the right-hand side, are things like mushrooms where there's no lethal dose. There is very little harm that you can do to yourself or others. They are not addictive, they're actually anti addictive. And we've seen that both in rodent tests and research studies. Again, we just don't know this. We're told stay away, these things are going to get you hooked. And for the most part psychedelics don't work that way.


[07:13] Moira: But there are some, I think that you refer to that you can become addicted to not the magic mushrooms, but other ones you can. So, my thing is that people, even this whole thing today, like our discussion is to present information to people and to really do the work, find out what everything is there. Magic mushrooms are fine, they're not objective, but some of the other psychedelics can be, is that correct?


[07:48] Matt: Yeah, I mean the one that I certainly want to caution people, but in a positive way, if that makes sense, is Ketamine. So, Ketamine is our only legal psychedelic. You can have it prescribed here in the States. It's been FDA approved for a long time and it's used off label for mental health. In medical use, when someone's watching your dose and your frequency, there really isn't any signs that this is addictive. But in recreational use, Ketamine can be very addictive. So, when people are not again watching their dose in their frequency, it can be addictive. So, I want to caution people that Ketamine can do wonders for depression and anxiety. But if you're listening to this and then you're in a situation where someone is offering you Ketamine and it's not a doctor and it's not a controlled situation, I'd be very careful with that medicine. It's a powerful, powerful medicine. But other medicines, LSD, mushrooms, MDMA, those really are not addictive.


[09:01] Moira: I would think. But you just said because your company, as I said in the introduction, specializes in psychedelic assisted oral ketamine therapy. So, like you said, have somebody who's trained like a medical professional and how many people in the medical profession are now trained with giving this out to people for like things as anxiety and.


[09:26] Matt: Depression and grief count? But it's somewhere between 501,000, just in the States that are Ketamine clinics or practitioners who are using Ketamine for mental health. There's many, many more. Ketamine is a World health organization, essential medicine. So, it's been used for a long time as an anesthesia, it's used in pain management and some other things. But for mental health between 501,000 clinics and there's a big difference between them, there can be big differences between providers. So, if you're thinking about Ketamine, the first thing to be aware of is there are multiple ways to take it. You can take it through an IV or an intramuscular shot, you can take it through a tablet where you put under your tongue, and you let it dissolve and you can take it nasally. But in addition to the actual physical way, you take it. There's kind of the philosophical or delivery questions. So, there are some people who believe this is purely a biochemical reaction. So come on into my clinic and I'm going to put an IV or give you a shot and you're going to have your Ketamine experience for about an hour and then off you go. There's other people. Yeah, it's more of a spiritual or ceremonial process. So, we want to make sure you're prepared. We want to put you into a very comfortable experience. We want to maybe ritualize the process and hopefully you're able to connect with a higher power, whatever that means to you, and you're able to have the medicine do the biochemical things as well. Research shows that when you combine some type of guide or therapist doesn't necessarily have to be a licensed therapist. With the Ketamine you have the highest chance of a successful outcome.


[11:36] Moira: You talked about a lot of things there. I'm like, where do I want to go with you?


[11:41] Matt: There's a lot to cover in this. Yes.


[11:43] Moira: Yeah, you did, you touched about a lot there. I'm thinking as you brought in sort of like the ceremony and rituals.


[11:53] Matt: Some.


[11:53] Moira: Of the things that was written in your book here. You had a doctor, Carlos, that wrote the foreword of your book.


[12:00] Matt: Who is Dr. Carlos Water?


[12:02] Moira: Yes, MD, PhD, and how he said, we live in a world in which our universe is a function of our pictures of reality. And then he went on to state that your book highlights area, this area to help reduce the social matrix of fear as we started to talk about from false information about the value of these substances in a medical model of health for the people affected by health conditions that needed assistance. So, we already kind of touch base on that, like the beliefs and false information and so social matrix of fear, you know, he went on about the studies he did, you know, in the Sufis in Morocco and the shamans in South America and the Kabbalah in the Middle East. How do you see that the psychedelics intersect closely with the spiritual realm? Seeing that you brought that up, I was going to go there.


[12:49] Matt: I'm a big fan of Dr. Carlos Warner's work. I think he talks about this in the context of the human promise or the human potential and how do these medicines not so much cure anything, but act as a catalyst to unlock our human potential. And people can approach these medicines for different reasons. Some people might approach the psychedelic saying okay, I have a diagnosis. I have been diagnosed with depression or anxiety or OCD or an eating disorder or substance use challenge and I would like some help others approach it saying I want to understand more about my connection to kind of all things and work on my relationships and work on optimizing myself. And others might approach this and saying I want to have a chance to commune with my higher power again, whatever that is for that person. I think regardless of where you enter this journey, it's hard not to have a spiritual experience with these types of substances. And it's interesting. People talk a lot about Bill W for the guy who started Alcoholics Anonymous. And he pushed for a while to have LSD as an option for alcoholics, not because the medicine stopped them from drinking it's. Because the medicine would give them kind of a forced spiritual experience, which would then allow them to conceive of a higher power and conceive of a spiritual connection, which would then allow them to proceed with the Twelve Step program. So, I think it's really quite fascinating how these psychedelic medicines can unlock that aspect of life.


[14:55] Moira: Matt, thank you. What was your experience? Because you talk about psychedelics, you know that it was changed your life and it was you use the word trajectory in your life like that's a big word. Like, you know, like it literally took your life to a different area and let's tie in there how you had your spirituality in your own life and your experiences, to know that the world, to see the world in a bigger way and then in terms of the world, the universe, galaxies, lifetimes, millions of years. There's a big question for you.


[15:28] Matt: That is a big question warrant. Thank you.


[15:31] Moira: I'm a little chunker so in NLP. I like to get everything in so I can little chunk it down for you.


[15:39] Matt: I think I can dive into this. My very first psychedelic experience, kind of similar to you. I was not a tobacco user, not a huge drinker, really, no drugs. It was just not in my it just wasn't what I did. And I had this chance to do a guided Psilocybin or magic mushroom experience. And in this very first journey I reconnected with my mom who had died when she was 49. I was 22. And I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe that decades later I would have this experience where I could feel her presence and I could connect from her to me, to my children and I could understand that she might be here just in a different form in a way that I didn't believe or accept prior to that. And that led to a bunch of realizations, the realization that I was really living my life afraid of dying because of what I had seen with my mom and my father before she passed, how lack of connected I had been in many aspects of my life. It was just such a beautiful healing experience that it's like, I need to learn more about this. And then that led down into using a number of different psychedelic medicines and working with different spiritual teachers to learn more and connect more. And prior to psychedelics, I didn't really have a spiritual life. I couldn't conceive of what a heaven could be like. I didn't really believe that there was a higher power out there that I could connect with and an experience after experience after experience with psychedelic medicine. Yeah, I definitely can conceive of what a heaven looks like and can understand what it feels like to be enough and to be loved and to be worthy of those things without having to do anything. And that's really incredibly freeing and we're.


[18:04] Moira: All looking for freedom. Tell me what that's like. What is heaven like for you and your experience and let it be God, the higher self, what that is for you.


[18:13] Matt: What was that experience like for me? It was kind of melting into the energy of the universe and just feeling absolute love, that it didn't really matter who I was or what I was called, that I was loved. And I was able to feel that love in the energy, I guess, in my body without at that point, I didn't really know I had a body and able to give that love freely and not just think, about love as something that happens, like in the bedroom, or intimacy as something like I realized I had a lot of love I could give. But to be able to give that much love, I had to be able to receive it. And yeah, so I could definitely conceive of just this energy plane where we all exist, and we have this feeling of love.


[19:23] Moira: I'm just taking that in that as you're saying that how was it for? Because, as you just said, too, that after you went through this experience and then went into other psychedelics and spiritual teachers and that and that you really know that you're truly loved? How? With your wife and your children? What did they think of this path? And how do you teach them about this? And does your wife, does she do psychedelics? Like is it something that you have in your family?


[19:58] Matt: Yeah. What do they think of this? Let me start there.


[20:04] Moira: Or feel.


[20:05] Matt: Or feel. They definitely know that I am more available, emotionally available and connected than I was before this journey started. It has changed the way I work, it's changed the way I allocate time, it's changed the way I communicate with them. Interesting. I'll talk about my son here for a second. He asked if he could go to one of these psychedelic retreats with me and I was quite surprised that I asked him is this because you want to try psychedelics? He said no, not at all. I just want to see what you are up to. I agree. And I took him and on the day of what they were calling Sacramento meditation, he was like the helper. When people had to use the restroom, he will help them get there if they need the blanket, he would get them a blanket if they needed water, he would get them water. Okay, perfect.


[21:14] Moira: Your son is coal, is that correct?


[21:16] Matt: It is. He's coal.


[21:17] Moira: Yeah. If you can share that. Yes.


[21:21] Matt: I ended up bringing Cole to this retreat. He was super helpful that at one point in the middle of my journey, I opened my eyes, and he was standing right in front of me, and I was able to hug him and really hug him. I felt like our DNA was connecting. And I was able to say to him that my parents died when I was young, and no one gave me an instruction manual on how to be a good father. And while I know I've let him down at different times, that I'm doing the absolute best that I know how to do and that I love him so very much, and I just need him to know that. And I loved having that moment with him. At the end of that day, everybody gathers in this room with a fire, and there's this great big bean bag chair. Huge. And he and I were laying on this and he's 16, by the way, at this point. And grown men are talking about confusion over what do they want to be when they grow up and what are the challenges in their relationships and challenges with their parents and challenges with their children. And people are crying. And I just can't imagine seeing all that at 16 on how freeing that is. I know at 16, I thought adults had their stuff together, and that was a lot of pressure. But to know that, okay, no, they're just humans, and we're all trying to figure this out, and there is a place where you can go and you can be vulnerable and you can talk about really deep things, and you can share, and you can receive. I was so grateful to be able to experience that with him. Does that answer your question?


[23:15] Moira: Yeah, 16 is quite well, I think 16 today is different than 16. When I was 16. I think the younger adult or younger person now, they they're introduced so much more in the world, especially with electronics and everything like that. That's wonderful that he asked to come and to be there for you and support you and for you to have that dialogue with him.


[23:41] Matt: Yeah. As much as he was there to support me, I think in his way, he was definitely looking to learn, looking to connect. It was super beautiful. I'm glad he asked because I would not have thought of offering it. But now that I've done it, I would encourage parents to think about, is this something that not only may be for themselves, but something that they might want to do with their children?


[24:10] Moira: And I think that yes. I think the part that you're saying with that he saw grown men around, and I don't know if there was women there, too, but in the sense that life is about expansion and the journey continues. There's that saying it's not a destination. And we all have our trials and tribulations and growth and ups and downs turns and everything that he can realize that even if you're older, people are still they can still be struggling, they can still have the challenges right.


[24:41] Matt: In that there is no destination. It's a lifelong process. And this is just you just yeah, it's okay not to know everything at 16 or 17 or 18 or 40 or 70. It's a process.


[25:00] Moira: And isn't that wonderful if you really embrace that every day. Please share with us the role of psychedelics with the Indigenous. I don't say that right, people, Indigenous. There we go. When I was younger, just to let you know, Matt, there was times I couldn't say words. I got stuck with them and my parents would say it, but then I wouldn't say it. Yeah, but Indigenous. See? Now I've got it.


[25:24] Matt: There we go.


[25:25] Moira: Indigenous people. How does that play in the role of the role in their lives? And then we can also touch a base on the WASCA with definitely not.


[25:38] Matt: What I was going to yeah.


[25:40] Moira: In the Indigenous Tribes. See, I've got it now.


[25:43] Matt: Here we go. Totally have it. So, what I love pointing out when it comes to indigenous is when we hear the word indigenous, many of us who are North American, we think of kind of the Native Americans or the people of Central and South America and the indigenous people down there, which is which is a great thing to think about when it comes to psychedelics. All of those communities used psychedelics, but so did the Indigenous people of Europe and Asia and Africa. Mushrooms as an example. Psychedelic mushrooms are found on every continent with the exception of Antarctica. But this Indigenous tradition we don't think about, well, why were they burning witches in the Middle Ages? What might they have been doing? They might have been using psychedelics. There's a really interesting book called The Immortality Key, which is a Brown scholar, Brown University scholar who, who has a thesis that it was the use of psychedelics that led to the rise of the first 400 years of Christianity to it spreading so quickly. So, there's a number of different Indigenous cultures that have used psychedelics, certainly for hundreds and arguably thousands of years today. There's one thing I caution people about, sometimes people think about psychedelics, we think about peyote, just because that's such a well-known psychedelic and that's one that there's a lot of requests from the Native American Church as an example that we don't want that to become overharvested. And many of the Native American people believe that should really be preserved for them. And I put a whole chapter in my book and just for things for people to think about, there's other ways to get to kind of a mescaline psychedelic besides peyote. So, if you don't have to use Coyote. Maybe you shouldn't, but there's just, again, things for people to make their own decision about. I put a bunch of information here in the book. But in the United States there is a Native American church and a Brazilian church that have been given exemptions from the DEA to practice their religion here in the States using Sacramento meditation. So, the Brazilian one uses a form of Ayahuasca and the Native American one uses for the most part, peyote. There's a number of other churches that have popped up that have asked for exemptions, but none have been granted as of yet. The process is still very still unclear. But I think there are a number of people who use psychedelics who would absolutely tell you that hands down this is, this is a religious experience for them, and they would like to be able to continue to have those religious experiences.


[28:46] Moira: So, in those communities, again, they would be legal then because it's in a community or a church that it's part of their religion. Is that correct?


[28:57] Matt: Yeah, that is correct. And the ones that the DEA have given the exemptions, it's legal. The ones that are in the application process or have not applied. And there's a number of reasons why churches don't apply through the DEA process. Those are not legal. So those would be underground, underground services that people are taking a risk if they participate in.


[29:27] Moira: Tell us a little bit about neurotransmitter signals and brain function and how the body and brain what happens with the body and the brain when you're taking psychedelics?


[29:39] Matt: Sure. Happy to talk about this. So, let's go with Ketamine first, only because this is legal and it's legal, so it's easier access and then we can kind of talk about how it compares to other psychedelics. But Ketamine is going to biologically change what's called the glutamate, the glutamate activity and it's going to increase brain derived neurotrophic factor or BDNF in the brain. And what happens is that really improves your neuroplasticity and your synaptic strength. So, think about all the neurons that are firing in your brain. How many more will fire when you're on a psychedelic and then it's actually starting to grow more neurons and increase the strengths between them in the synapse.


[30:36] Moira: Wow.


[30:37] Matt: Yeah, it's impressive. It then does something really cool. And this is very similar to kind of all the psychedelics where it suppresses what's called the default mode network. And this is when I think of this as like your inner narrator, the voice that's like, oh, I'm worried about this, or worried about that, or we're not good enough, or this is bad, it quiets that down. And that alone is such an incredible feeling. One of the things I hear a lot is wow, I felt like the weight of the world was lifted off my shoulders and I didn't even realize I was carrying it. So that's really a powerful thing that's happening in the brain. Then we get into with Ketamine you get into kind of a dissociative effect where it's almost like you're separated from your body. You can move your body if you want to, but you probably don't want to. And this is where you start to unlock your subconscious thoughts and getting into repressed memories and emotions. MDMA as another example of a psychedelic, what's talked about there is it removes the shame, blame and guilt and allows people to kind of re examine things that have happened in their lives more objectively. So that's again, super powerful. And then that fourth thing that happens is that spiritual effect where for whatever reason it helps people connect to the greater meaning of life and that offers peace and relief from depressive symptoms and certainly of feelings of hopelessness. So it's really pretty remarkable what's happening. And then if you think about this for a moment, we think about repetitive thought that we get into thinking a specific way and as we get older those tracks of repetitive thoughts get deeper. The psychedelic medicine kind of puts like a fresh coat of powder down so that you don't have to go in those same tracks. You can think in a different way. And whether it's for 1 hour with Ketamine or 6 hours with MDMA, your brain is like oh, I forgot I could think this way. Now I remember and this way I appreciate this, I appreciate seeing it this way I want to do more of this. So then once the medicine passes you can through meditation and different integration practices continue to develop habits that the psychedelic unlocks and that can be used for any type of repetitive thought pattern. So why does this work for depression, anxiety? You're breaking those patterns. Why does it work for OCD and eating disorders? You're breaking those patterns. Substance use, you're breaking those patterns. There's some interesting research coming out now with autism and psychedelics. Again, breaking those patterns. So really powerful for doing that.


[33:40] Moira: With autism. Now that's interesting.


[33:43] Matt: It is interesting. There's a person out there, Aaron, I can't think of his last name, try to think of it here for a second. He has a couple of different books and Aaron Orsini now that I think about autistic psychedelic.com, where he talks and points to studies about how psychedelics can help people potentially with autism, which doesn't get as much research because it's a harder thing to research. But I've talked with a few people with autism who have said I couldn't read faces, I really struggled with that. And then my first LSD experience kind of unlocked the key and then I got it or I had a hard time understanding other people's emotions and then through a psychedelic experience I was able to connect and understand differently how to process other people's emotions. So it's interesting still very early on, but I encourage people who are interested in that to check out. Aaron's work?


[34:52] Moira: I worked in the area with autistic children many, many years ago. So that's why when you said that it really got my attention. So when you talk about psychedelic therapy, first of all, do you have to keep taking something or is there like I know what you just said there, you can then meditation or you can do journaling or you're creating these new neural pathways and neuropathy in the brain where we can create this. We don't have to be hard locked into something. Do you feel like someone who starts using psychedelic, they continue it for the rest of their life or they use it for a short time, they open up those pathways and now they've created these new habits, they're happier, they're more connected, they know how to get there through maybe something like meditation. What's your thoughts with that?


[35:39] Matt: I really appreciate that question because I forget that we're so used to kind of the current medical model where you're going to be prescribed an antidepressant and you're going to take it every day and ten or 20 years later you're still taking the antidepressant. And even if they don't work, which on roughly 40% of the population, they don't, or even if we have awful side effects, this has kind of been our only choice. And the side effects can be pretty hard with antidepressants. With psychedelics it ranges. So, for instance, I'll go with ketamine. Again, most ketamine practices are going to initially ask people to do six sessions over six weeks and they're short it's an hour-long session. So, it's very manageable after that. Maybe that's solved whatever brought them in. If it didn't, they might be on a schedule for once every month, once every two months, once a quarter for some period of time. In some cases, it's just when people have different triggering life events and they just need a kind of a topper. But it's not in any stretch in every day or every week experience with other psychedelics. Getting in the research of Johns Hopkins, many of the people, and I'm talking like they've done a bunch of research with terminal cancer patients or lifelong smokers depression studies, the person who tried the psychedelic in the study would say this is one of the top five or ten most important things that's ever happened to me. And maybe again they don't ever do it again. It was a once in a lifetime experience. Some people say this does make a difference and I do want to do this on some kind of frequency, but that frequency could be once a quarter, once a year. And then there's one major exception to this and that's people who choose to micro dose instead of macro dose.


[37:43] Moira: Let's talk about that.


[37:45] Matt: Okay, so micro dosing is when people take a sub intoxicating amount of the medicine, typically one 10th to one 20th of a regular dose. So, if you're doing it right, you should be able to micro dose and work and micro dose and drive and micro dose and go about your day. There's some research, not a lot, the early research is pretty divided. Some of the newer research is kind of pointing pretty positively over that this micro dosing can impact people's creativity, people's connectedness people turn the blues up, turn the grays down, that type of thing. Yeah. And there's some really interesting research coming up from Paul Stametz, who is maybe the most famous mushroom expert here in the country, about the combination of a little bit of psilocybin like zero point five ten of a grammar, and lions, main and niacin. And that that combination of three different compounds has an exponential impact on memory, even dexterity. So, the implications potentially for the older population is pretty significant. So, I'm curious to see what else comes out from the various studies that he's running with that. I do have a free guide to micro dosing on my website, moira, if anybody is interested, where talks about kind of where the different protocols perfect. And that's Matt Zemon zemon.com.


[39:27] Moira: Right. We will put that below in the show notes for sure. Anything that you want there a book or that you want to refer to, we will add it.


[39:35] Matt: There we go.


[39:36] Moira: So, they can get more about macro there. What's the message you really want to get out there today for our listeners, your book for sure, psychedelics for everyone. What's the bigger message, your bigger vision here for writing this and, you know, stepping into this whole field of consciousness also and what is that bigger vision you see? What are you holding?


[40:06] Matt: At one level I just want people to have the information to make an informed decision on whether psychedelics can help them, can help someone they love or can be good for society. And that's what I mean by psychedelics for everyone. I don't mean everyone should take a.


[40:22] Moira: Psychedelic, we didn't say that, but I knew it was going to come out.


[40:28] Matt: So there you go, there we go. I just think the research is pretty compelling. We're talking about over 300 academic institutions either studying psychedelics right now or with psychedelic centers. It's a lot of research. And then I think the second thing is what is the role for, what is the intersection between medicine and spirituality for us as a species, for growth and for healing, for learning, all of the above. And I don't believe psychedelics are a cure. That the biochemical by itself. I think it's that unlocking and that connecting to this higher power that makes this really exciting and makes the potential for change really possible.


[41:41] Moira: That's quite lovely. Big part of this show. Matt is one of the visions behind the show is not only to inspire empower people to live their best life on their terms, but also to raise the consciousness and the vibration of the planet to heal Mother Earth, Gaia humanity out to the universe and the galaxy. And I hold that every day in my meditation. So, it's something I hold a space for that for healing, for the planet and what I just said, humanity, Mother Earth, the universe, the galaxies, and I do commune with different levels in that area and have been for many years now. I'm going to just say if you'd like to share the gift that you like to give to people, then I would like you to read the invitation which was kind of a really nice closing, but let's talk about the gift first so people can then enjoy you reading that passage.


[42:36] Matt: Sure. I have a book called Psychedelics for Everyone we were talking about earlier and it has some personal stories. It has an overview of what are psychedelics and how do they work and then it does a deep dive into kind of the eight most common compounds how they're used. What is the research saying? What should you know? I have available anywhere books are sold. Also, an audiobook and as a gift for, I think we said the first three people to share or post about this particular podcast, I will send a book or an audiobook without your choice to you, no charge.


[43:18] Moira: Yeah, that's wonderful. I'm going to put the instructions there, Matt, that they can let me know when they post that. And it also builds the community, it supports the community. That's what I like. And I always like giving my listeners or our listeners a gift because it's sort of like you matter, thank you for showing up, thank you for caring. So that's kind of why I do that.


[43:44] Matt: Both the things that you're holding out here more at that fundamentally I hope that everybody can feel that they matter. One thing that psychedelics do is it really shows you do matter. You are enough, you are loved, you are loved just as you are. And then when you do an action and support raising consciousness or help other people see you're building community and you're helping if we're all not healed, none of us are healed and you're helping build that. So, it's really beautiful work. So certainly anyone who can help uplift this, your messages, moira or this particular podcast is doing that work and greatly appreciate it and thank you for spreading the word and being part of the community.


[44:37] Moira: Thank you Matt. So, we're going to end our beautiful heartfelt conversation, which I felt it was with reading from your book, which I thought was beautiful, called An Invitation by Roger Lockshire. If you could read that. Yes, if you could read that that would be lovely. Thank you.


[44:53] Matt: Okay, so this is called a poem he wrote called An Invitation. When we see everything as sacred, we do no harm. When we do no harm, we are acting from our heart center. When we act from our heart center, we see everything is sacred. When we see that everything is sacred, we come to truly know that we are all one. This is not a philosophical or intellectual sense of oneness, but a deep truth of knowing the actual inter-relational connection of all. That is when we all on this Earth come into this knowing that everything is sacred and our actions are motivated only by pure heart consciousness, it is then that we return to what has been called the Garden of Eden, or Heaven on Earth. It is the key that unlocks the gateway into our fullest human potential, where everything exists exactly as it is. All things expressing as unique, divine purpose, moving in harmony, ever expanding. Heaven. Paradise is not some distant, far away place, but here, right now, available to us in every moment. But we must choose this, just as all things we experience come down to choose. I invite you to choose this. I invite you to dream this dream with me.


[46:50] Moira: Thank you, Matt.


[46:53] Matt: Thank you, Roger. He does beautiful work in the space, and I thought that poem was beautiful.


[47:00] Moira: And I have my heart mala on today. So, when I was listening to you, I had my hand on my heart. It really connects you into that. So Matt, thank you for today sharing from your heart and soul your wisdom on the transformational power of psychedelics. Namaste, Matz.


[47:20] Matt: Namaste.


[47:27] Outro: Thank you for listening to the Heart Soul Wisdom podcast with Moira Sutton. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. Please join our community at moira sutton.com and continue the discussion on our Facebook page. Create the Life You Love you will be part of a global movement connecting with other heart centered people who are consciously creating the life they love on their own terms. Together, we can raise our consciousness for the greater good of humanity and for our planet.