[00:03] Intro: Welcome to the heart Soul Wisdom podcast, a journey of self discovery and transformation. Moira Sutton and her amazing guests share real life stories, tools, and strategies to inspire and empower you to create and live your best life. Come along on the journey and finally blast through any fears, obstacles and challenges that have held you back in the past so you can live your life with the joy, passion, and happiness that you desire. Now, here's your host. Create the life you love. Empowerment life coach Moira Sutton.

[01:01] Moira: Welcome to season five, episode 97 Overcoming Life's challenges with our very special guest, chiropractic physician, speaker and author, Doctor Cindy Howard. From a modern dancer to a title winning power lifter, Cindy Howard's life has been an exciting journey filled with endless adventures and a vibrant spirit. As a board-certified chiropractic internist, nutritionist, and national speaker, she dedicates herself to empowering others to live their best lives, both emotionally and physically. Ever the determined and resilient individual, Cindy encountered a life changing moment when she personally diagnosed herself with Hodgkin's lymphoma. By reading her own test results. This experience solidified her unwavering belief that we possess the power to choose our approach to life and determine how we respond to the challenges presented by the universe. Embracing this philosophy, she authored her inspiring book, positively altered, a celebration of this empowering belief system. Today, she channels her enthusiasm, which she has a lot of, into running her thriving practice where she attends to a diverse array of patients and conditions ranging from fatigue to autoimmune diseases, catering to individuals from pediatrics to professional athletes. Her life motto, which I love, embodies her spirit. I'll do anything once, twice, if it's fun, three times just to be sure. So, let's dive in and see what you can learn from Cindy today and become positively altered. So, without further ado, I'd. I would like to introduce you to doctor Cindy Howard. Welcome, Cindy.

[02:46] Cindy: Oh, welcome back. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

[02:50] Moira: You're welcome. See, I boob on words at times. You know, I remember when I did a lot of speaking at times, if somebody asked me a question and I got emotionally into the question, I would just go blank because I jive into the emotion and people say, did you just forget what you're going to say or whatever? And I said, yeah, I did. It's about being real, and you sure are about being real. And you bring a lot of humor into your life. It's not always been you having humor to look at all situations in your life?

[03:22] Cindy: No, not always. Although I was sort of raised in that environment. We always joke that the family, we excelled at bad jokes that we thought were funny, where nobody else thought they were funny. And it's always been a part of my life. But yet, I will tell you, it was actually something I really had to learn when diversity around it, that was a skill I practiced quite a bit.

[03:45] Moira: Oh, and it's a wonderful skill if you think back to the humor. Okay. I didn't write down the movie, but where he wore the nose as a clown to work with patients to bring that humor and laugh every day, like, for us to have laughter in our life, because there's so much seriousness that I think it's important to bring humor. Okay, so, Cindy, let's start. You know, you encountered a life changing moment when you personally diagnose yourself with Hodgkin's lymphoma by reading your own test results. Please share that experience. Like, what thoughts were going with your head, your emotions, your feelings? And how did that lead you to really go and read your test results? What was going on for you at that moment?

[04:27] Cindy: Oh, a little bit of fear, a little bit of anxiety. You know, certainly at the same time, I think some strength, because I had knowledge, which is pretty interesting. So, to diagnose yourself, if you walk back to anybody who's ever been in any sort of medical program or school, we always think we're dying of everything when we learn about it, because we can relate to symptoms so closely. So, when you're actually really walking through a true diagnosis and you realize the severity of it, it becomes a little surreal. And almost like, you question, is this really me? Am I really walking through this? Is it really happening? So, it's different than when you sit across the desk from somebody and you wait for the results versus you kind of get snapped in the face with them, which is really how I felt. You hope for the best, you prepare for the worst, as that saying goes. And yet I really knew when the test results came in that it was going to be something not so good. I just didn't know what that not so good thing was. It's tough, I think, whether you are on the other side of the desk or you do it yourself. But all that knowledge that I've spent 25 years building was also very empowering because I was like, okay, I don't have to wait for anybody to explain this to me. I know what this means. And now I formulate a plan, and that's what I did.

[05:51] Moira: That's, wow, I know, my husband and soul mate, Cliff, he was diagnosed with prostate cancer many years ago. And when he was told, I didn't know where he was, and I called, and he didn't answer the phone, which was strange. And then when he did, he was, like, crying. And I said, what's wrong? Get home safe. When he came in, I told my family, give me space, because I think his father might have died. His father was about 102 at the time.

[06:21] Cindy: Wow.

[06:22] Moira: Yeah. And I thought, that's what happened. But it wasn't. It was that. And like you said, it's almost surreal. Like what? Like, very, very scary now. But thank you for sharing that. Cindy, you write in your book that you had a favorite day of the year. It was January 2. And then you made a new favorite day of the year, which you know was December 21. Tell us about that. And also, I thought it might be nice for you to read page twelve and 13 as you made these days.

[06:54] Cindy: Sure. So, the reason I say January 2 was my favorite day of the year is I've never really been a huge fan of the holidays. And as I get older, they seem to be more hectic and stressful and, you know, filled with more aggravation than it is joy, which is very sad. So, the joke was, you know, if I could find a place to go live, maybe right before Thanksgiving, where they don't celebrate any holidays and come home, January 2, that would be ideal to really downplayed the stress that I feel around the holidays. So, January 2, I joke, was my favorite day because all of that was over. And then, of course, the joke is, okay, but now it's just a countdown for the next time they show up, because they aren't going to cut around. The reason I chose a new favorite day is I really believe at my core, that it was a life changing moment to say, okay, why? And I'm a big fan of the why behind everything. Why did I have to walk through this very scary, challenging disease? What did I need to learn? What did I need to see? What was I not paying attention to? Who do I need to help? Maybe it's just myself. And because I chose to learn from it, it really was a shift in everything I've been working toward to that moment to say, you know what? Now I have a little more autonomy and drive to live the life that I want to live from this moment on. And it really isn't about overcoming the holidays. It's about making a conscious decision to have fun and enjoy and move forward in a different way. So, when I had found out. I write in the book, I said as early as two days after I found out I had cancer. And about a week before New Year's 2014, I made my resolution. Which, by the way, I'm not a big fan of always either. Because I think if you want to change something, you don't wait for January 1, right? You just change it. But I wrote on December 21 3rd, 2013, one day it will be the story of how I kept my head and did the work and got well. I hope it's mostly comedy with a bit of inspiration mixed with some good medical advice. Who knows if anyone will even read it yet, knowing how I feel right now, determined, yet scared, if I can make something that touches only one person in a positive way, then that I will be happy enough. How, if it sits on my computer forever, I will still be glad I wrote it. I'm writing it for myself. I'm writing it to remember what I'm feeling right now. I'm writing it to record that this journey, or excuse me, I'm writing it to record what this journey asks of me. I'm writing it to coach myself through this, to keep my wits about me, to find the funny at the bottom of the chemo bag.

[09:44] Moira: I love how you said that. Thank you. What this journey asks of me, like your why, that's a wonderful perception.

[09:53] Cindy: Really.

[09:55] Moira: You were healthy in your book. You shared that you didn't let your kids eat junk food and all that. So, you're very, very healthy eater and looked after yourself is the why. Because you felt these changes need to happen for you to walk through this and. And be the inspiration you are right now to continue the work you do in the world and also inspire people who might be challenged with this or another health crisis in their life. Is that part of it, that you think that that's why you got sick, because you were a healthy person?

[10:28] Cindy: Correct. And I think that's part of it, but I think it goes really even deeper. And it's about that self reflection in order to do those things for other people. Because I am in a profession that helps. I mean, that's what we do. And I see sick people all day long and help educate so that we can guide them on a path for them to make their own decisions on how they want to move through health. And that means something different to everybody else. But it really became important of what is health for me. And it isn't just blood. Blood markers that look okay. It came down to relationships with family and friends. It came down to self worth. How do I actually view myself? And am I in a space where I feel good about what I'm doing and who I am and the kind of friend and family member and doctor that I'm being to others? And am I good? Right. It was very much turning it introspectively into what do I need to change and who do I want to be? And am I comfortable in my own skin to move through the rest of my life? And it was great from that aspect because I welcomed that. And sometimes it's really scary to look at those things about yourself because I'm my biggest critic for sure. I mean, I can tell you all the things I don't do well and the things I need to improve. And yet those are very positive reflections. As long as I'm willing to make the changes.

[11:59] Moira: Yes. And it always comes down to coming from you personally, you know, not outside people, outside beliefs, outside norms, whatever it is out there. Right. It's all about this work that you're saying going in introspection and really looking at your life. I love that, you know, your self worth, you know, do you have to change anything? Are you comfortable in your own skin? Those are a lot of great questions that my community here would even love just day to day in their lives, you know, whatever their challenges that come up for them to really be honest with yourself and not hard on yourself or judgmental, just look at it and observe and then decide.

[12:38] Cindy: Right. And the great thing is, if the answer is no, you're not comfortable. We all have the power to change that. We never stopped. And one of the things that became really important for me through this was actually a word. And, you know, people have, again, we mentioned resolutions or, you know, the new thing is to find a word of the year that works for you. And I'm very big on words. I love to look at the meaning of words for me. And the word that really resonated was shift. And it was just that simple is when I'm not comfortable, I don't feel good. I don't like, I want something different. It's not about feeling bad about that. It's just how do I shift then to go in the direction I want to move? And acknowledging that every choice decision thought I had up till that moment got me here to allow that shift. So, it was all for good. But if I don't shift, then I'm stuck. And the idea of being stuck is very painful to me.

[13:33] Moira: And being stuck, you talk about choice very much. Being stuck is a choice not doing anything is your choice.

[13:41] Cindy: Correct?

[13:42] Moira: And to keep telling a story that doesn't serve you. Oh, I love what you're saying. Don't care. The day that you did get you were diagnosed, I read that you felt alone, and you called your friend, doctor Michael Taylor. He said he was sorry. Asked how you were. You told him you don't even know. Like, kind of freaked out, a bit confused. Like, what do I even do? I need to start hitting this thing. You told you to get chemo, and you didn't want chemo. When did you decide that you were going to include chemo in your treatment plan?

[14:13] Cindy: Oh, boy, I wish I could tell you. I never did.

[14:17] Moira: Yeah.

[14:18] Cindy: Yeah. I was ready to hop on a plane to Germany, actually. You know, there's. There's some places outside of this country that treat people walking through cancer very differently. And being that I'm in, you know, I consider myself a natural practitioner. I do no prescription drugs. I was like, I am not putting this poison in my body. And that's exactly what it is, poison. And, you know, I believe that sometimes they kill us while they keep us alive.

[14:40] Moira: Yes.

[14:41] Cindy: It becomes about longevity, not always about quality. So, I was really. If you would have asked me prior to the diagnosis, I would have said never. And that's where, you know, it's interesting when we use the words always or never, we got to be careful, because until you're faced with that, you don't really know. And, you know, Mike, who I truly do trust with my life, which is why he was my phone call when he said, you have three little kids, and you're going to do chemo so that you can stay alive. And I went, okay. You know, it was one of those, like, I don't want to listen to you, but okay. And when I really sat and thought about it, I did have three little kids, and I was, you know, going through a bad divorce, and I needed to show up for that, more so than I even needed to show up for me in that moment. And it was in that realization that this is bigger than my belief system. And the way I practice this is about finding the right thing to keep me alive and then clean up the mess afterward. And I, okay, but I also know what to do to clean up the mess, and I wasn't going to just accept the path of, you know, detriment in order to get through this. I was going to go, okay, but we're going to do it my way too. And that's what I did. So, I encompassed both and really did it. I really did do it my way once I made that decision.

[15:58] Moira: And that's a great song. Doing it my way.

[16:01] Cindy: Right, right.

[16:03] Moira: Tell us about this, your potato salad story. I really enjoyed it. And how can this help people shift their own perspective in their life as you have done?

[16:11] Cindy: Right. So, actually, it's funny that you asked me about that because it's actually my least favorite chapter in the book. And yet, I think, in a certain way, it can be the most profound. And the whole philosophy behind the potato salad is if, you know, somebody invites you to a picnic and they say, bring potato salad, do you google the right way to make potato salad? And what does the right way actually mean? You know, maybe potato salad is German potato salad, or maybe it's made with a sweet potato, or maybe you leave out or add two different ingredients. And for me, the way I walk through life is I never really sort of wanted to be normal, and I don't even know what that word means, right. Because my normal is actually a little odd. And I probably would have shown up with the potato salad that was made with sweet potatoes and maybe some raisins in it or, you know, something fun that you wouldn't normally expect just to be a little different, you know, to walk that path that isn't what people expect of you and even what you might expect of yourself. And when you make something a little bit different, you might even surprise yourself and like it better. So it is that philosophy. But yet, at the same time, if somebody brought regular potato salad, whatever, regular means that that's okay, too. Some people just really love, right, the typical potato salad. It's really about expressing those differences and acknowledging the fact that we're all probably right no matter how we made the potato salad.

[17:33] Moira: See, and I love that because, you know, you talk about at one point, not fitting in, and this part you just said about your normal and how that's different. I felt that about myself growing up because I was an empath from very young, you know, could see spirit and did all that work, went into the healing field for many years and coaching. And, you know, my family used to say, don't tell people anything like that. You know, don't tell people they'll think you're mad or crazy. And I said at one point, when I was 30, when I met Cliff, he was 40. At that point, both of us were at a stage with dating that we thought, do you want me to change? Forget it. Adios. You know, this is what you get. This is who I am, and I'm embracing it. This is who I am. And, you know, because I. Yeah, so my family told me that for a long time, and. And they just said, and my brothers told me that before, you know, because I wasn't married at a certain age and that, like, quit telling people that. And I thought, what? Like, I didn't even understand what they were saying because I love being different. I loved, not when I was in high school, not when you're younger, but as you're getting into your mid twenties. And when I started to really get to know who I am by 30, I knew. And mind you, you're always evolving. I'm 65 now and proud of it.

[18:43] Cindy: And you do, you just sort of stop caring. And I laugh, you know, even in my clinical practice. And I definitely treat, you know, more female patients than male. But I love when women come in and they're like, I'm starting to feel like I'm crazy. And I'm like, great, because we do crazy. Like, I love crazy because I don't look at that word as a negative. I look at it as. And you've got this unique set of whatever that is, and we're going to honor that and, again, help you on whatever path. But it's okay, right? We don't have to be whatever this normal is that society promotes because I don't even get that, quite frankly. I wouldn't even know how to be normal.

[19:17] Moira: And who wants that anyway? But maybe some people do. I don't, but I don't either.

[19:23] Cindy: But again, you know what? You're your normal, and I'm my normal and beautiful thing.

[19:27] Moira: Yeah. I think it's honoring each one of us for our unique, who we are and, you know, our skills and how we look at the world. It'd be pretty boring if we were all the same, you know, really boring and predictable all the rest. So, Cindy, please share what being brave means to you and how it does not mean being scared because you had to be brave during this.

[19:49] Cindy: Yeah. The bravery, for me was really about actually honoring the fear, and it was about saying it's okay to have weak moments and it's okay to not know, and it's okay to then no and make a decision and follow through and change your mind and the walk through it. Right. Rather than becoming the victim and letting it take over. So, bravery, for me is the battle, but not always being successful in that battle, either. There were days that weren't good. There were moments that weren't good. There were choices I made. I had to change. And it was the acknowledgement of that. That I think is really the bravery of the. No matter what decision I made, I've got this. I've got it. Got it. And I'll learn from the bad choices and celebrate the good ones.

[20:38] Moira: I love that. I just. Yeah. Because, yes, we make choices and sometimes they don't work out and sometimes they do. But again, what you're seeing, again, the perspective of learning through it, instead of some people beat up on themselves, like, what does that do? That just brings more of that.

[20:55] Cindy: Yes. And I think with the bravery, too, also is the admittance that sometimes you need help and that you are struggling and that it does suck because, you know, I've been beat up a couple times through this journey where people are like, well, how is cancer was fun. Like, come on, that's nonsense. Like, how is that believable? And I'm like, well, because I chose to find the joy in that journey. But yet if you do read through the story, there's lots of places in the book where it's sad or frustrating. So, it isn't all just, oh, you know, I walked through cancer and it's great. It's a party. You should try it, too. Right? Like, that's, you know, that's not where the bravery comes in, but it is part of that perspective, of that choice of, yeah, I did make parts of it fun and. And that was very brave, too, because people got mad at me over that. Right. Like, how dare you say that cancer was fun. Well, but for me it was. So, I'm not telling you it has to be fun for you. It may not have been, but I wanted that through the journey, and I'm grateful for it, and I don't ever want to do it again.

[22:01] Moira: Oh, for sure.

[22:03] Cindy: You know, sort of learn that lesson. But still, if I could go back, you know, it's that whole, if you could go back in time, what would you change? I actually would not change a thing because I learned so much and there is a reason I got it and there's lots of them. And I wouldn't be sitting here with the thought process that I have today had I not been given that challenge. So, I wouldn't have taken it back. Wouldn't have. And it turned out good. So, I guess that makes it easier to say the outcome as well was, yes.

[22:37] Moira: And you talk about embracing vulnerability in your book quite a bit. You go around that where, you know, and I put here, you know, why do you believe vulnerability contributes to personal growth and connection with others? Because that was a hard one. For you, because were you a perfectionist, Cindy, that things had to be a certain way, and then you could now be vulnerable, as you just said a few minutes ago, that you could have good days. You could have crap days. You can ask for help. Like, it's not a sign of weakness to ask for help and be supported by, you know, the people around you during this journey and who continue to be with you.

[23:14] Cindy: I had to learn that. That was a pretty big lesson.

[23:16] Moira: Yeah.

[23:17] Cindy: I take care of my children. I show up. I run a practice. I help people get well. Right? I was, you know, what I thought was a good wife at the time that I was married? I was a good daughter. Right. And the vulnerability came because I was always the girl that had her crap together, right? Like, I had the career, the kids, the money, the, you know, the travel, the fun. And then when you really look at it and you go, hmm, maybe, you know, maybe it looks that way on the outside, but yet there were financial challenges in my life, and there were struggles through school, and parenting is hard, and being a wife is hard, and being a daughter is hard, and being a friend is hard. And I was prior to this, I think I was afraid for people to see that because I was the girl that always had it together. And as we all know, what happens behind closed doors is usually a very different story than what we put out to the public. And I decided that, you know, in this, and especially as I'm now walking this journey of trying to connect with people, the more vulnerable I am and the more I admit, I don't have all my stuff together. And sometimes I'm not a good mom, and sometimes I'm not the perfect doctor and I'm not a great daughter and I'm not a great friend. And owning that, that vulnerability to admit that I wouldn't have done prior to this journey because I was wonder Woman before this. And now I think I'm a better wonder woman only because, you know, sometimes I can't spin around and put on the outfit. Sometimes it just doesn't work.

[24:49] Moira: That's a lot. Yes. And that's a lot to admit. Like, again, you know, I think, well, I know as I get older, like, if somebody says something, as I said earlier, that, you know, that it's my journey, you know, it's like I've wanted it. This is totally kind of off, and I'm a little chunker. Cindy, you'll know that if you talk to me another time that I've wanted a tattoo since I was 30. And so, 35 years ago, and Cliff never liked them, but, you know, he knows now I still want one. I thought, I'll get one when I turn 65, which I did in February. And I thought, and it's got to be symbolic. It's got to mean something to me. So, I don't know what it is yet, but just a little one. Just. I just want to get this tattoo. And I've always, you know, admired tattoos. To me, they're an art form, and they really represent something. Usually people have gone through something, but now he knows it's not his body, it's my body, and he's, like, supports me totally. Anyways, regarding the people that were around you, you know, you said that cancer will take people out of your life, but it will also bring them into your life. You must allow all these things to happen. So how did your cancer friend support you on your journey? And did you have to educate them along the way how to.

[26:02] Cindy: Some of them, yeah, some of them. It was fascinating because Lori, who stood by me through the entire process, was really kind of a new friend. You know, she wasn't the lifelong best friend, you know, that was always there that you just would know would show up. And what was interesting through that journey is I believe that she was there for me as much as I was there for her. She went through, she lost her brother to lymphoma, and it wasn't a great experience. And I think seeing somebody go through it better actually offered her a gift as well that she might not know she even needed. So, it was unexpected that way. And yet there were some people that I would have expected, and even my husband at the time would have been a great opportunity for him to step up and show me how much he really, truly did love and care about me and yet wasn't there. So, I think a lot of times we assume things about people and the type of relationship we have, and it's easy to get those wrong as well. But what I also learned is a lot of us hold on to people because we think we should. And whether that's marriage or friendship or, you know, a ten minute, you know, you cross paths sometimes we want something so badly, and it's just not really what it's supposed to be. So it was that opportunity for me to go, okay, I have to let go of some of these people that are not showing up, instead of expecting them to do something that either they want, don't want, or be can't right now, for whatever reason, and it's okay. And that's also a hard lesson to learn because, you know, some of your good friends aren't really your good friends, and maybe they were and they just aren't in those moments. So, it was really cool to see. And some people don't know how to act, and that's okay. And some people acted where I didn't even know who they were. They came out of nowhere and were offering to make me dinner or drive me places. And it's like, who are you? Why am I so important that you're showing up? And a lot of times it's really even about them and not about me. So, it's a cool lesson to learn how to accept those gifts and also let the people go that maybe just shouldn't still be there.

[28:17] Moira: Again, great advice. And that can also be toxic. Family members like, you know, it's important to make choices of who you know is in your sphere, in your life. Do they bring you up? Do they bring you down? Are they really your cheerleaders or, you know, great, great questions. Now, with your friend Lori that you mentioned, you both came up together with that term winning.

[28:40] Cindy: It was really. Yeah, it was, I think, even more her idea than mine in retrospect. But, you know, it's that whole, like, what do you want out of this? And Lori is extremely. I actually consider myself competitive, but she would make me look noncompetitive. And, you know, she's been in, you know, the weightlifting training bodybuilding industry for a really long time, and nothing stops her. And she is tough and strong and powerful and she wins. I mean, that's just always been her mantra. So, when we're like, okay, we got something. We've got a battle. What's the right word to describe what we're going to do? And it was, we're going to win, and we did it together and we did, you know, we beat this thing. And it was. It was just, again, that key word, right, that you focus on through a challenge to get you through.

[29:29] Moira: So winning shift. And you're also how you have the phrase, as you said a few times already, walking through cancer.

[29:39] Cindy: That was fun. So, I was having lunch with my girlfriend Wendy one day, who actually is also an amazing therapist. She practices emotional freedom technique. We're having lunch, and I remember, not verbatim here, but basically saying, Wendy, I have cancer. And she called me out and she's like, no, you don't. And I'm like, what do you mean, no, I don't? Yes, I do. I mean, I have the tests and the blood tests and the scans. And the biopsies to prove it. And through that conversation, what she challenged me to do was to change my words. And that was where a lot of the shift in where I gave power to certain words really happened. And she challenged me to say, you're experiencing cancer, you're walking through cancer. I really like that. I don't want to own it. Right. Because when you say you have something energetically, it becomes a part of you. And in this case, I didn't want that to be a part of me. So, the experience of moving through it really helped me say, yeah, there's the other side. And I don't know what day that's going to happen, but I'm going to be able to say I got over the speed bump or through the tunnel, and I walked through. And I've since used that in practice and with lots of friends who have walked through challenges to say the same thing. Walk through, experience it, and enjoy the experience. Find the gifts in that challenge, but don't own it when it's bad. Own it when it's good.

[30:59] Moira: Yeah. I totally believe that in every challenge in our life. Yes, we have choice. And also, there are gifts in there, even if we can't see them. You know what? Yeah. And if we have that perception as you do and that you don't have, you're walking through it, what's on the other end, and, you know, who are you going to become? It's a whole. You're looking at the gifts, and as you said, you would not. Not have had this experience. It's brought so much into your life and who you are today. Now, you have a theory why doctors get sick and, you know, about picking up energies from other. If you believe that, how do you protect yourself now when you're working with people?

[31:41] Cindy: Yeah. So, here's where now everybody thinks I'm crazy. You ready?

[31:46] Moira: I don't think it's.

[31:47] Cindy: Yeah, no, you. You won't.

[31:49] Moira: But some.

[31:49] Cindy: Some people may, um. We are energetic human beings. Right. And I always give the example that, you know, there's that one person, right, that gets in your personal space and they're a little too close to you and you feel uncomfortable, and yet they're you. So how come that can happen and yet somebody else can walk in your space and walk right up to your face and you feel like you've known them for 100 years. And it's all about energy and how we resonate at different levels with different people. So, in practice, it's very interesting for me because a couple of unique things happen when I sit in a room with somebody new that I'm meeting for the very first time. In a weird way, I can almost tell how successful we're going to be based on how we're resonating together. And when the energy, when that feels really good in that space, the communication is better, the exchange of information and energy works, and I think that it allows us to elevate what we're both trying to do. When I feel uncomfortable in the room with somebody, and that does, it doesn't happen a lot, but it does happen on occasion, and maybe they feel the same way. It actually is a level of concern for me, because then instead of feeding off the energy, it drains my energy. Does that make sense? It pulls from me in a negative way where I don't feel good. So there's a really simple, almost silly exercise that I do, and it's, I just call it zipping up. And it's nothing I created. It's been around for a long time. But it's this philosophy of when you walk into the room with somebody who pulls your energy, drains your energy, or you just don't feel good around. I picture enveloping myself almost in, like, this giant bag that has this big zipper, almost, I hate to say it, almost like a body bag. That's my vision.

[33:31] Moira: I thought you were going to go there.

[33:32] Cindy: Yeah, but not in a morbid way. Yes.

[33:35] Moira: Yes.

[33:35] Cindy: Right. Okay. I'm going to just zip up to, to put a barrier around my energy that when I walk in the room, I'm going to do my job, and I do, and I'm going to listen and listen to reply in a way that the patient needs, but not in a way where my energy feels drained. And that physical visualization that I do really allows me to protect myself. And then when I come out of the room, it's, you know, you let the zipper down and let everything that, that bag collected out so that it doesn't stay with me. Um, and most of the time, I'm pretty good at that. And when I forget to do that, that's where, at the end of the day, I'll go, wow, I'm wiped out. Why am I wiped out? And then I realize it's because there was somebody or a few people that, that zapped me that day. And, you know, then I have to figure out how to refuel, whether it's through meditation or breathing or, you know, grounding in the earth and just really resetting my soul so that I can come back better and stronger. And it doesn't make me sick. Um, you know, and now I'll get even a little weirder for you. You know, there are times where I can feel and bear with me here, but I'll have patients that'll walk through the door with a certain symptom, and within four to 72 hours later, I actually will experience that symptom. It's that energy can move through me, and I don't, I don't work real hard to control it because I don't want to be one of those people that feels sick every day doing that. But on a rare occasion, and I believe that's where I'm resonating almost perfectly with somebody else, that energy can transfer through me, and thankfully, it does move through me. I don't hold on to those things. I'm able to allow them to go through, but that's where I feel a lot of times as physicians, part of it is pulling people's other energy. We're around sick people all day, and energetically, there's transfer of that that can make us ill. Now, the other half of that, which is going to sound less crazy, is most of us, as doctors, don't take good care of ourselves. You know, we work long hours. We don't even eat perfectly. We're not getting right sleep. We're traveling. You know, we make all these decisions that we preach to other people all day long, and yet we're not always good followers of our own advice. I love that combination of that, really. It hurts some of us sometimes where we wind up ill.

[35:49] Moira: I know doing energy work for well over 30 years, and as I said, I'm an impact on that, is that I used to believe as a Reiki master and a career Reiki master, and all the energy work that I've done in being trained in, through the years, that, oh, I had to really experience what they're going through so I could help them. You know, one person said to me one day, do you really need to experience everything that they've gone through? And I thought, oh, maybe I don't. But in my thirties, I was still thinking that. I was thinking that very much, you know, I had to. I had to get closer to whatever to help them. I needed to do that. I don't do that anymore, but I used to do that, and that can.

[36:28] Cindy: Be very dangerous, right?

[36:29] Moira: Yes, it can, because we hold on.

[36:31] Cindy: To things that really aren't meant for us to hold on to, and I don't own stuff that isn't my journey. And the things that are supposed to be will come and I'll walk through them again, but I really don't want anybody else's junk I'm good with.

[36:49] Moira: Now, you've learned a lot through this journey, and I know that's here. I wrote, too. Some days you shared you could not even open a water bottle by yourself. And that cancer taught you a lot of things. As we've been discussing. Please share some more of the things that you learned. I have some of them written down here, but so people like honoring the little things in life, that kind of thing. What would be your advice to people like, what you learned? That if this comes their way or any health challenge or, you know, what would be your biggie? Wisdom. Gem bomb.

[37:23] Cindy: Yeah, stop. Stop and just appreciate the moment you're in. You know, become the society where we videotape everything and we take pictures of everything and we talk about the next big thing that or little thing that we're going to do. And it's really just about, you know, like, right now, I'm appreciating the conversation. Right the moment that we're in, I'm sitting in a comfortable chair in my office, and we're chatting, and hopefully, you know, people are listening to and. And challenging themselves with something both you and I are saying. And it's just in this moment, it's not what I'm going to do in an hour, and it's not, you know, the next day. And I'm not taking pictures of what we're doing, you know, I'm just enjoying this second. And I'm. I wish for people that we would just slow down and stop a little bit because it is those little things of you know, maybe, you know, you were great, right? Like, when we first started to connect, before we even recorded, you noticed a picture on my wall. Right. You know, maybe that brought you joy or a good memory or reflection. And yet, had you not taken the moment to notice that you may have missed something. So just breathe, right? Like, take a deep breath in. Wherever everybody is at this moment, just stop and breathe and recognize what you're doing and appreciate it.

[38:38] Moira: That were. appreciate. Yes. Appreciation and gratitude, they're both in the same area. Um, I used to, when I spoke, um, again, I did a lot of speaking before, but, um, I had this dance. I had people get up. It was called the attitude of gratitude. And then I speed them up. We did it like three times, like, different motions and that. And people loved it. It would. They, you know, by the time they did it the third time, and were moving. They just, like, the energies just went up in the room. Um, yeah, I think you call it the energy terrain.

[39:10] Cindy: Terrain? Yes, your energy terrain. And what do you want it to look like? Right. You know, and I want mine filled with laughter and flowers and beautiful things and, you know, the moments that don't look like that, we turn them into those moments, and. And that's the terrain that I want to have. I don't want to have a negative terrain where everything is gourmet and what could be better? And, you know, and that's just it. I mean, sometimes, you know, you go for a hike and it starts pouring rain, and you think, ugh, I'm in the mud. And then I think, oh, my gosh, like, dancing in the rain is so fun and. Yes, but it's therapeutic, and, oh, boy, I've got some laundry to do when I get home. But, you know, there was a reason there was that gift, and yet I wouldn't purposely go hiking in the rain and in the mud. But you figure out how to shift that mindset to find the fun and the ridiculousness sometimes of some of those things, too, instead of going, oh, crap, it's raining, let's just go sit in the car till it's over.

[40:07] Moira: It's funny, my mom, she'll be 97 in July. She has a walking disability and she lives here with us. And, you know, there'll be a day that's cold or it's not sunny or whatever, snowy day when it's most of snow, and she's like, oh, what a horrible day. I said, it's a wonderful day. You're alive. Look at the beautiful snow. Like, you know, yes, it's a little cool out, but look, spring's in the air, and, you know, she tends to go there at times. And probably, as she's get older and she goes through even more, but we always remind her to really look at the Gift right now. Like, look at what's happening right now.

[40:46] Cindy: Right? My joke is always, I'm alive to complain about it, which is a good thing, right? You know, I'd rather be alive and complaining than dead not complaining. So, you know, the alive part is the benefit, right? And I think we all do it. I mean, I don't know anybody that truly walks through their life again thinking everything is perfect and wonderful.

[41:04] Moira: No, I think unrealistic, but no, we're human beings, right?

[41:09] Cindy: Like, we're here.

[41:10] Moira: You know, we're spiritual beings living a human life. So, part of that human life is all these experiences that we get to create and co create and, you know, and decide. As we're talking about decision making and choices, what, what do we want? If you don't like what you have, you know, what do you want? Start focusing on that and get into it and create that. You also talk about, which I think, again, I think I want to touch on this just because I think it's important for the listening audience. Again, I know the community here you talk about turning, you now turn to quiet, patience, joy, and forgiveness. That's a biggie for a lot of people. Forgiveness and letting go of the past. How did you, how can people do that? Because a lot of people might be in a, like, we're just saying with all this, like they don't like something, they, they're not going to forgive somebody and it's just hurting them. And how do they let go of that and create a new story?

[42:05] Cindy: Right. I think it's changing the definition of the language. Right. So, it's interesting. I look back on my life and I say I only have one regret and I wish I didn't even have the one regret. And I've made a lot of mistakes and I, you know, maybe there were other, better, different paths for me to take, but I never look at them as regrets because I look at everything as how I got to this moment. So, if you wrong me, whatever that means, really, my energy gets affected by holding onto that versus, you know what, you wronged me and it's okay, but I'm going to let go. I'm going to choose to move on from that again whether I keep you in my life or I don't. Let's just use that as the example.

[42:42] Moira: Right?

[42:43] Cindy: Like if somebody really upsets you, if I keep you in my life and I'm not willing to let go, then really, I made a bad choice there. If I'm willing to let you go and say I forgive you even though you, you wronged me, you know, that really might be more about the other person than it is about me. And it's my reaction that actually allows me to be self reflective, to give me more information versus somebody doing something that may have ticked me off because we're all going to do things that don't work for other people, but how do I choose? You know, it's interesting. I'll share with you. When I was walking through my divorce, my husband at the time one day sat down and bear in mind there was no great story. There was no cheating. It was just two people that really just grew apart. And I wasn't happy. I don't have a great story, but it was interesting. One day, he was sitting across the kitchen table from me after I decided that I really wanted to leave the marriage. And he said, you have never really asked me to forgive you for that. And I thought to myself, I shouldn't have to ask you. You should choose that if you want it. Because even if I ask you to forgive me, I don't know that you're capable or choosing to do that. You have to just choose to forgive me for. For wanting out of the marriage. And again, it's sort of that perception, right, of how we look at those things, of I want to forgive people because it's important for me, not because they have something to prove or to change, because whatever they did or didn't do was actually right for them. Right. So me leaving the marriage was actually right for me. And although I'm sure he's so mad and bitter and, you know, I'm sure there's still a whole array of emotions, I did what I needed to do for my health and my safety, my sanity, my right, my happiness. So, I don't really think I need forgiveness from anybody for that personally. Right. I'm comfortable in my choice.

[44:37] Moira: I think also in marriage when. Because I've done coaching and counseling before that for many, many, many years. And, you know, I used to tell people in relationships where they decided it wasn't working anymore that, you know, we have contracts in our life, I believe, and sometimes it's just to have the children, and then that was your contract. Then it ends, you know, there's, again, like you're saying you made a choice for your well being and for you, and that would also affect you for your whole life with your children and how you. How you made that choice. And your children can see that, that, you know, it's like relationships, it could be studies in school and you decide it's not about quitting, that's not working. I need to go down another path where some people just think, that's it. I'm stuck in this. This is it, you know, I gotta be here for, because of other people's beliefs. So, I love that you looked out for you, number one, which is the most important for you to show up in your life, for the work you do, for your family, being there, for all the stuff that you do in your life, that you made that choice. And I think there's bravery encouraged in that personally.

[45:47] Cindy: Thank you. Yeah, it's interesting because we, and I think I'm certainly not excluding men from this, but I think especially in women, since we tend to nurture, we tend to put everybody else before ourselves, and I think that makes us less of who we are. And even though all of my decisions, whether it was through cancer, divorce, friendships, do affect the people in my life. Right. Like, every choice I make has affect my children in some way or another. But I've also shown them how to show up for myself and trust that I'm making the right decisions and live that life true to me. And they're really great, stable, healthy kids through a bad event, a couple bad events, really. There were no behavior issues or outbursts or I hate shoes, or I've got an amazing, amazing relationship with all three of my kids because I was true and honest to myself in order to show them. And now I think they're leading a life that way, too, where they're not pleasing their mom and dad or their friends, they're pleasing themselves and not apologizing for it.

[46:48] Moira: No, that's okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[46:50] Cindy: I love it because they don't do everything, I want them to do, but I love the way they're growing and saying, mom, this is me. Okay. Let's honor that. Right? It's really a cool thing. So I think, yeah. The advice to people is try it and see how you feel doing it. Right? Like, you know, stop feeling sorry for yourself or stop staying for other people or stop putting everybody else first. And actually, I had this great conversation with a girlfriend, actually, yesterday about it. She's going through some challenges, and she says, I'm selfish. And I said, when did selfish become a bad word? But if you don't like the word selfish, let's change it to self nurturing. And she goes, oh, that sounds better. And I said, great, let's do that. Then let's become self nurturing instead of selfish and make it a positive connotation to move through. And then everybody around you is going to want to elevate to do the same thing.

[47:43] Moira: Yeah. That's where words come in again, how powerful they are. Right.

[47:47] Cindy: You can give them enormous power. So give the right words the right power and take away the power from those that. That don't suit you.

[47:54] Moira: I know my mom will say about our cat. She'll say, oh, Charlie's nosey, or something like that. I said, he's curious, and curiosity as a whole opens up possibility and, you know, versus, oh, he's, you know, doing something else. And so, I'm training her to say, he's curious instead of nosy or, you know, whatever he's that she thinks of him, she gets a lot of joy from him. Could you read about believing ourselves on page 195? I think that's a beautiful paragraph.

[48:28] Cindy: Sure. Let me flip there so I finish a paragraph saying, we are what we say we are. We believe ourselves, so speak kindly and with excellence. Write down what you are, in most cases, what you want to be and become it. Read it out loud. Write it with lipstick on your mirror in your bathroom. Shout it out your window and scare the neighbors. Even if you're wearing a cold cap. Especially if you're wearing a cold cap. Which, by the way, is what I put on my head to deter the chemo from attacking the hair follicles so I wouldn't lose my hair. Yes, it will become contagious. Hang out with the five people you most want to be like. If you are the smartest person in the room, get out and find another room so you can learn something. Never finish a day without experiencing something fun. Laugh, cry, acknowledge, live, and be resilient and excellent.

[49:24] Moira: Wow, that's beautiful. I wanted to end our beautiful, heartfelt conversation with that. And it also comes around to your model that we said at the very beginning with your bio that you'll do anything once you twice of its fun, three times just to be sure. And then we dove into this beautiful conversation so people could be positively altered. Cindy, please share with us the gift you'd like to give to our listeners today. I'd like to honor our community and our listeners for taking the time out and for you as you're making a difference in sharing your story with our listeners today. And please note all the links to Cindy and your gift will be below in the show notes. So if you can just share what that is, that would be wonderful.

[50:09] Cindy: I'd love to. So, this book is near and dear to my heart. It's vulnerable. It's important. And it goes back to that philosophy that if it changes one person's perspective, I'm glad I published it. So, for the readers out there, I would love to give away five hardcover copies of the book with my autograph on it and a message, if you want, that's personalized. So, you know, I'll leave that up to you. How that gets to the five lucky listener. But at the same time, if you aren't one of those five, it's all available hardcover, soft cover audio on Amazon. And please, if you feel that somebody could benefit, share it. That's really where I wanted to be, is just passed along to deliver good messages and to help us shift.

[50:56] Moira: That's wonderful. And we'll have the links there so people can go right to your site and follow you and all the different links. You know, I don't do Instagram, but all those things.

[51:08] Cindy: Right? Wherever you wind up, you can find me somewhere.

[51:11] Moira: Perfect. Cindy, thank you for sharing from your heart and soul your wisdom on overcoming life's challenges. Namaste.

[51:19] Cindy: Namaste.

[51:24] Outro: Thank you for listening to the heart soul wisdom podcast with Moira Sutton. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. Please join our community@moirasutton.com and continue the discussion on our Facebook page. Create the life you love. You will be part of a global movement connecting with other heart centered people who are consciously creating the life they love on their own terms. Together, we can raise our consciousness for the greater good of humanity and for our planet.