Heart Soul Wisdom Podcast

Never Enoughitis and How to Thrive in the New World

February 15, 2021 Moira Season 2 Episode 24
Heart Soul Wisdom Podcast
Never Enoughitis and How to Thrive in the New World
Show Notes Transcript

Love & Relationships
Health and Well Being
Freedom and Fulfillment
Travel and Adventure
Passion and Purpose

Never Enoughitis and How to Thrive in the New World

Robert is the Founder of The Whisperer, a mindfulness organization that provides coaching, strategies, tools, and techniques to help private clients and businesses find their WHY so they can become a force of good in the world. He was once an Ivy League-educated Fortune 100 corporate executive and later a successful real estate and private equity entrepreneur.

Robert’s life began as a Fairy Tale—with a successful career, amazing wife, tremendous wealth—until it all fell apart. His relentless pursuit of more had ruined his life.  In his Book “Never Enoughitis: A Story of Success, Emptiness, and overcoming myself” ~ Robert shares his wild rise to success and cataclysmic fall, with all the painful details and mistakes of his personal journey. 

Today, he resides in Coral Gables, Florida, and is a father, artist, photographer, avid yogi, Cross Fitter, kite surfer, and an active dive volunteer and former Board Member of the Coral Restoration Foundation in the Florida Keys.

Website: http://thewhisperer.com/

Gift: http://neverenoughitis.com/heart-and-soul-wisdom-podcast

Website for the book:  https://www.neverenoughitis.com/

Moira's Website:  http://moirasutton.com/

FB Community:  https://www.facebook.com/CreatetheLifeyouLove1/

Welcome to the Heart Soul Wisdom Podcast, a journey of self discovery and transformation. Moira Sutton and her amazing guests share real life stories, tools and strategies to inspire and empower you to create and live your best life. Come along on the journey and finally blast through any fears, obstacles and challenges that have held you back in the past so you can live your life with the joy, passion and happiness that you desire. Now, here's your Host Create the Life you Love, Empowerment Life Coach Moira Sutton

Welcome to our second season episode 24. Neverenoughitis and how to thrive in the new world with our special guests best selling author Robert Althuis. Robert is the founder of the whisper, a mindfulness organization that provides coaching strategies, tools, and techniques to help private clients and businesses find their why so they can become a force of good in the world. He was once an Ivy League educated fortune 100 corporate executive and later a successful real estate and private equity entrepreneur. Robert's life began as a fairy tale. We're going to dive into that ~ with a successful career, amazing wife, tremendous wealth ~ until it all fell apart. His relentless pursuit of more had ruined his life. In his book, Neverenoughitis: a story of success, emptiness and overcoming myself, Robert shares is wild rise to success and his cataclysmic fall with all the painful details and mistakes of his personal journey. Today he resides in Coral Gables, Florida. He's a father artist, photographer, avid Yogi, crossfitter kite surfer, an active dive volunteer and former board member of the coral restoration foundation in the Florida Keys. I'm so so excited here today. So without further adue, I would like to introduce you to Robert Althuis. Welcome, Robert.

Hey, thank you, Moira and it's it's Althuis, right? Not outhouse, but you can call me outhouse.

I'm sorry. I am just going to call you Robert ~ now.

Robert is even better. And don't worry. You know, my my ex wife had my name for 15 years and she still didn't know how to say, don't worry about it.

Now that's funny because Moira a lot of people can't say and the only person I don't like saying it not correctly is my husband. Like you can say it properly please, but and even there, Robin Williams when he was on. Oh, Peter Pan he played Peter Pan, Moira is the name of his grandmother or mother one or the other and they didn't teach Robin How to say that properly. And I said come on Robin Williams ~ teach him how to say Moira right. 

So there we go. It's an Irish name. No,

it's an Irish name for for Mary and but we're Scottish. My maiden name is Macfarlane. So I married a Sutton and I thought Sutton was English, but he was Irish. So there you go.

And you're in you're in Canada, right?

We're in Canada, we'd like to be sailing in the Caribbean. That's our, our ultimate, our outdoors. And by water and that so yeah, it's cold up here. But that's okay. Right now at the moment. It's all perfect.

I hear you.

So Robert, let's start at the very beginning with this fairy tale stuff. How did you you know, everything fell apart. When on the outside your life looked like you just had everything but in the inside, you knew that you did not. So let's start with that fairy tale.

One of the fairy tale was you know, my book starts where I graduated from Columbia Business School. And I go to GE and, and in this executive program and I met my wife there actually very early on in the first couple months of being a GE in a training program. And so we have this, this beautiful romance and eventually a beautiful wedding in Mexico on the beach and everything is going great. I mean, my career has taken off, her career is flourishing, double income, no kids, we have a great life. Everything is it's just epic and beautiful. And then, you know, we live that whole story and you know, around 2008 the financial crisis the unit I was part of GE Capital you know, had to reorganize let me put it that way because the regulator's came in and and so I wound down the business unit that I was part of and there was some asset leftover an orphan asset as we call it and I bought that out and that's how I started that's how I went into business for myself. And then I had a you know, the first year was actually very difficult and 2009, I nearly didn't make it and but then we just turned the corner at the end of '09, we won this very big project in Bogota very super and serendipitous how this just landed in our In our lap, and that was kind of the turning point. And then we had this huge run with a lot of successful projects and a lot of money that we that we made in Latin America, in the airport infrastructure, business and private equity deals that we were doing. I had a partner in that business for a little bit that I later bought out. And then in 2015, most of that was sold. And I remember, you know, having spent almost five, six years in Latin America, traveling back and forth, of course, and by now we have three kids and my wife lived in in Miami. And I had all the money that I ever thought I want it to be happy or needed to be happy. And I had this beautiful home in an oceanfront community here in Miami and a prestigious community. I had the cars, the toys, I had the beautiful wife, the kids, the vacations, you know, really no immediate financial worries whatsoever. And yet, I was just empty. I was just like, Is this all there is to it. You know, I always felt like this illusion. Like, I did everything right, I won the game, you know that I did exactly what they told me to do. I went to a prestigious business school, I worked hard. I, you know, I made all this money, and I'm supposed to be happy, and I wasn't. And so that was, that was kind of where the book gets into the third part where I start talking about how I get out of that.

So that was the fairy tale buying in kind of like a Barbie Ken thing. You know, I was thinking that to be over. I did this interview today that, you know, we had all I had a Barbie and Ken, but you know, I didn't know anybody that looked like her or him. 

Wow, well, that's a whole different subject. Yes, yes, it is. Because, you know, we torture women by having these, you know, by very early age, and we give them a Barbie doll. And nobody looks like that, right. But we make that the standard of beauty and something to aspire to. And then obviously, nowadays, through media and advertising, all those things, we have all these false standards. And then we wonder why women have eating disorders and adrenal fatigue. And you know, they they feel terrible, they have body issues, you know, because there's an unattainable standard that we hold them to.

I was quite lucky, I had some other dolls that looked not the same as Barbie. Okay, mind you, I had a chatty caddy, I don't know if that was something that's a woman talk a lot, because I don't think that's totally true. So yeah, all the things we buy into and what we have around us. And I think it's pretty cool. If you have a boy or a girl, you know, if they want to play with dolls, both of them, let them play with dolls, like, do whatever they want to do to experience ~ to experience that and then see what their choices are. So literally, you've got in this fast lane, of this never ending pursuit of more, and you really, you were trying to be someone in the world that really wasn't you. But that's you buying into that. So let's go what what happened your life that made that change that turning point, that Rude Awakening that you had?

Well, like, like I said, it was it was around 2015 when I when I, you know, achieved all these things. And I sold a big part of my portfolio. And I so I had a lot more time on my hands. Because during the previous 20 years, I'd always been working full time. And for me working full time was like, you know, I didn't stop on weekends, or vacations or anything like that. I was always on the go. And I was always on the phone. I was always, you know, active and doing doing doing right. I was I was the ultimate hustler, I outworked everybody. And that was one of my super talents. But, you know, when I when I had more time on my hand, I was like, you know, I'm supposed to be happy. And I was looking around as everybody else seems to be happy with this stuff, you know, everybody's happy when they just had the car and the toys and you know, the happy family and you know what's missing, and I just, I really struggled with it, I didn't know what it was. Now. During that time, I kind of lost interest to continue doing business the way I have been, I just didn't I didn't see any purpose to it. I just felt like, you know, I was just making a bunch of investors rich, or richer, and I was you know, in the meantime, filling my own pockets, but there wasn't really much more purpose to any of it. And, and over time, you know, swimming with the sharks, I had become a shark myself. And so I had, you know, looking myself in the mirror and the things that I've done, the man I had become, I just had an eternal conflict with that, you know, my bank account was full, but my soul was bankrupt. And, and that was really what I was butting up against. Although at the time, I didn't realize what it was. It was just you know, me not feeling great. And just like what else is there?

And then you were filling it with a lot of different things just to numb yourself.

Yeah, for a long period. Yeah, I was numbing myself like most people do. And you know, in many different ways. I mean, even athletic endeavors but also alcohol - drugs. You know, when I was in Colombia, I partied a lot. And I call it business entertainment, but I was just obviously partying I you know, I was unfaithful to my wife and in that sense to, and, you know, there were many ways where I just, you know, basically, you know, violated my integrity, right. I mean, I lost my integrity in so many different ways. And, and, you know, as you start living that life, you know, it becomes a lie. And I'm a big believer that every man has a deep down desire to be just a noble and courageous and strong, but when you when you, you know, go out of integrity, you start leaking energy. And, and like I said, like you mentioned, I mean, you find these displacement activities, which could be anything, it could be alcohol, nicotine, coffee, it could be video games, binge watching, could be sex porn, it could be having affairs, and whatever way it shows up for you. All these things tend to be ways that we numb ourselves because there's something in our lives that we we don't want to face.

Well, let's look at that. Let's let's talk about masculine ~the archetype of the masculine. And what's the nature and the origin of the wounded masculine?

Yeah, and I'm glad you call it the wounded masculine, because there's a lot of people refer to it as the toxic masculine. And I think, one of the, you know, in this whole debate about the masculine and the feminine, which we obviously both each have these, these energies. You know, toxic is not the right word, I mean, wounded is a much better word. And, you know, I'm a big believer in these archetypes. I mean, I've learned for myself that, you know, when I, one of the things I had is I had a very closed heart. And I wasn't in touch with my feelings at all, but I had a lot of feelings. So I was repressing all this stuff inside, I was just not expressing it in any way. And then, you know, in the masculine that eventually erupts and erupts in different ways. And usually it you know, we hurt the people closest to us, men, men express their pain outwards. And so, you know, we hurt our loved ones we learn, you know, our partner, spouse, you know, maybe our kids or family or friends, whoever it is, and then we ultimately tend to self destruct. And you see, there's so many different examples of men that have done that in their life and ruined everything in their life that was dear to them. Women tend to reflect this pain inwards. That's why you see so many eating disorders and adrenal fatigue and other things, they tend to not hurt the ones around them, but really hurt themselves in many different ways psychological as well. So this, this toxic masculine or wounded masculine, in my sense, was came from a low self worth, I, you know, I had a stoic father that never really paid much attention to me in terms of compliments, or awards, and I was I had a chip on my shoulder. And over time I, I just egged it on because I could never satisfy him. You know, I remember his circumstances, like, you know, when I graduated top 10%, of my class at Columbia Business School, and, and he said, Well, you weren't valedictorian. And, you know, that was like a typical comment, but it was the president of my class for two terms with the only one in the whole school, but, you know, he, you know, I had so much pain around that. And, and I carried that, you know, throughout my career, I think that's what it was a big part of what was driving me.

The other thing is probably your father, you know, he's doing the best he can. That's, of course, and, you know, and then what was his father like, and his mother, and you know, just that repeat of generational history repeating itself? Mm hmm. So let's look at this embodied feminine, and how can that embodying the feminine aspect of our self help the masculine heal the wounds that males have? 

Well, the masculine is really in the head, right? It's, it's, it's rational thought, it's all those things. And, you know, the Citadel, the feminine energy is the heart, which is our love and compassion or kindness. And so when we're disconnected as men from our heart, you know, we're disconnected from that, that that resource, and we just live in our head, we rationalize everything. And this is one of the reasons why the world lives looks the way it does. We, we rationalize wars and famine, violence, inequalities, injustices, pollution, you know, the way things occur in this world, the way companies, you know, exert their control over resources. And you know, there's so many different practices that we could look at. And we just rationalize it. It's not based on compassion. It's not based on one world, it's not based on you know, what's in the best interests of the bee, the whole beehive. And so we have to access our heart We have to access that that where that love and compassion is to access that part of our wisdom because there's wisdom there too.

Know for sure. So how, how did you, begin to, you know, look at your shadows, slay those dragons and literally allow this feminine aspect of yourself to evolve and you know, come into your life, your being. 

Yeah, but what really opened it up for me, I went through a divorce in late 2017. And it wasn't a very good period in my life, I had also had a business that was wiped out by a hurricane. And so I was now I was in financial deep waters. And as I was navigating all that I, I decided I needed to go to therapy, because I was really heartbroken about my divorce, even though I was the one that that precipitated that. And, and as I was going through therapy, she told me to journal and to document things and you know, express your expressions. And, you know, once that, that Genie came out of the bottle, and I started expressing, you know, I had so many feelings that were that were just bottled up. And some of it was anger. And some of it was sadness, some of it was just pain from, you know, old wounds, and, you know, how I felt about myself and what was driving me and so, and then, you know, obviously processing a divorce, which, you know, we had three kids and all that stuff, it was it was done in a conscious way. And it was beautiful, we're still very good friends, but you know, it's still nobody gets married to get divorced. So, for me, that was really the turning point where I realized, like I, you know, I've repressed my feelings my whole life, I've never really talked about what I really feel, I always have these notions that a man is always tough, he never cries, he doesn't have any fear, and never wanted to bother my wife or any other relationship I had with, you know, some of the stuff that was really, you know, within me, so I just wanted to express it, I would just be stoic about it.

When we talk about also, you know, I talk about it, but you're also about forgiveness, did you start with the forgiveness forgiving yourself, you know, for this is part of your healing journey,

I learned about that practice. You know, during these, these last five years or so, I've gone to many retreats, I've read a lot of books, I know a lot of different things. And, you know, I wasn't, you know, when the forgiveness. You know, the purpose of it was really explained to me in a much deeper way that that is not so much to release the perpetrator, but to release you, from whatever you're carrying from that experience. That would forgiveness in a totally different light, I just never looked at it that way, I never really thought about, you know, forgiving something. So you can actually unload that from your backpack, you don't have to carry that story into your life. It's not even so much about the one that you forgive, it's really all about self love, and, and letting go of the stories that weigh us down, that hurt us the pain that we carry with us throughout our life when we don't process it. And so, yeah, forgiveness was a very big thing, when I found it, because I just hadn't been familiar with it whatsoever. Not in that context.

I think too you know, the the power of story and how story affects our lives. So you go into, okay, forgiveness, again, to let go. Because you're carrying that energetic field, if you're holding on to that and focused on that, and you know, that and then with the universe, and that you know, that whole I think you talked about the matrix and you know, how you were starting to see through that veil and you know, who are being and all that explain some of that, because I know that some people on this community forgiveness would be one aspect for them to learn about, but also the word failure, like, you know, that's a heavy word. And a lot of people put a lot of blame on themselves for that not get into forgiveness for failure can be, you know, I talked about what what is the giftedness which is my next book.

It's really, I truly believe there's a gift in every moment. So failure, if we look at it, you know, what can I learn from this? And that? Is that how you looked at the word failure to really embrace? 

Yeah, not during my career, but obviously, I learned because, you know, the last few years, I've had a lot of failures, and then how have you processed? Yes. So yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right. I mean, failure, if it's an event that you learn from, right, just becomes wisdom, and, and, you know, and wisdom is knowledge without an emotional load. So yeah, that's, that's really where we want to go in these things. Because as long as we attach a story to failure, it has an emotional load. What I mean, what I mean by an emotional load is we have some judgment attached to it, right? It's a bad situation. It's a good situation. It's like it doesn't feel good. And, you know, failure in itself. Anything that happens in our lives by itself is neutral. Only the story that we attach to it, the explanation, we give it the description, we give it in our mind, that's what gives it an emotional load. And, you know, when we pile up all these experiences over our life, and we pile up all these emotional loads, especially when they're negative emotional loads, I mean, these are things like stress, anxiety, overwhelm, you know, impatience, jealousy, worry. I mean, all these negative we carry those with us. It's just a heavy backpack, you know, that we're just slipping from life. So failure, yeah, we can beat ourselves up terribly. But what is Failure anyway. I mean, we're here we were born, you know, as soon as we're breathing we're enough, right? We anything else is just a mind made construct. I mean, what we call success in our world. You know, what is success? Success is being alive and being happy, right? It's not necessarily in what you do in your life, I mean, every person is meaningful, and is here for some purpose. And some of us are, well, you know, wildly successful in the worldly way. And other people are wildly successful in other ways. But it doesn't, you know, we touched on which value to it because that's the story, the construct of our of our society and the way we think about things and the way we deem successful versus not successful. But you know, those things you could are also man made just like fashion, you can look at fashion in the 80s. And if you look at an 80s magazine, right now, you're like, almost wowed, like what were these people thinking? But at that time, that was fashionable, right? Yes, yes. And, and now, it's something different, and it changes every five or 10 years, or they change it all the time, because that's good for business.

I know that you said in your book that the world's changing economy is changing, and how we live and work is changing our current priorities and outlook. You know, everything's evolving and changing. And, you know, for the most part, we don't really know the end destination. And right now, you know, a lot of people are in this uncertainty in this pandemic, this is new, and this is an opportunity to change. What would you say to the listeners about that like, about, you know, how this expanding this collective consciousness, I just like to get your take on that?

Yeah, no, first of all, change is always happening, whether we believe it or not, I mean, if we think we're in control of our life, you know, that's a fallacy to think. And so change is the is the only permanent. And, of course, there's a lot of very obvious change in the outside world right now. And COVID is changing a lot of dynamics. And there's a lot of people that unfortunately, have lost jobs, and some of those jobs will probably not return, because the economy's changing, the business is changing retail environment, traveling the stream and all those things are changing, but there's always jobs, there's always opportunity, because within this, you know, pandemic that we've experienced, there's also companies and businesses that are thriving, there's also people that are doing just fine, or even doing better business right now. So the question really is, is, you know, what do I want to bring into this world? And and, you know, spot your opportunities, you look internally, like, what am I passionate about? What am I interested in? I do think that we're in a more remote world. So we're gonna have a lot more gig workers all around the world, but the world has also become smaller in a way because now you go on Fiverr, for instance, you have all these creative freelancers. And they have a ~ it's a global marketplace. I mean, a guy with a laptop in Pakistan can have clients all over the world. I mean, that wasn't possible 10 years ago. So you know, if you figure out that, you know, you love working in Adobe Illustrator, and you're really good at it and talented. Well, you have a global marketplace, you know, your market has never been bigger. So I think we can also look at all these things and put them into context like how can this serve me? And how can this create more freedom and more financial freedom more freedom to move or have vacations or determine my own time, so maybe it's not the old construct of a nine to five job and we get a guaranteed paycheck. But you know, what's guaranteed anyway, 10 million people are jobless right now. And they probably thought they had guaranteed jobs. Right? So, you know, that kind of change is just going to be a constant?

Well, let's jump into this concept of your book title. And, you know, what's the concept behind this neverenoughitis and also, I want to dive into how does how do people thrive in this new world that we're experiencing right now.

I think it's differently experienced by different people. I think if you're in fear of the virus, and what's happening and the change, and you're just longing for this old world to come back, I think it's a tough place to be right now. Because it's, it's hard to see how that world is going to come back to normal, whatever normal is, and I don't really believe it will ever get back to normal. This is like, remember, when you used to travel, you used to go to the airport, and you could go all the way to the terminal and just walk straight onto the plane and your, you know, your your parents could drop you off at the gate. Mm hmm. And then we suddenly, you know, we had obviously security concerns, and now you have to go through all the security checks and you know, take your shoes off and all that stuff. Well, listen, that old way of traveling is never going to come back. It's just it's gone. Right? It's a relic from the past. But it doesn't mean you can't travel. I mean, you can still travel, you know, it's just it's changed. And I think it's similarly in the economy. Some of the things that we've known and gotten accustomed to, are probably going to evolve. They're going to change Little bit, but there's still going to be the need for all kinds of, I mean, there's still going to be economic activity, there's still going to be tons of opportunity, there's always always things that can be done, always new products that can be emerged. Because when people's patterns change, it means that, you know, now they're shopping in a different way, they're living in a different way. So they have different needs.

Personally, I, like we both have talked about this, or we've, I've seen it in your book, and you know that everything is in perfect alignment, everything is unfolding for us, for the universe, not to us in that we can't go back. And personally, I don't want to go back. And I believe in a world of unity consciousness and raising that vibration and inclusivity and experiencing your unique being, you know, that's where I see us going. And so that that excites me. And, you know, so let's, let's go into the area of being a truth seeker. How do you define that? And you're a true seeker, you define yourself that way? You know, how do people find their truth? And how do they become this true seeker?

That's a, it's a big question. But yes, so I, you know, I, I think any anybody's trophies in the home, like, we're all our own guru, teacher own, we have all the knowledge that we need, everything that we would ever need access to, is within us. And, and that comes really, from my belief that, you know, we're just an individual expression of infinite intelligence, or God, if you want to call it that way. So which really just means we're just an extension of God. And, you know, when we find that, that part of us and we reconnect with that part of it, we're basically tieing into, you know, the Universal Mind, so to speak. And so all the answers are within us, our soul is totally at peace, it's just on a journey. And it's finding its way through this human experience, which means see, so we can have these kinds of experiences in contrast, and obviously, like you say, I mean, everything is one. But we don't necessarily experience it that way, until we realize that, and so most people experience the world as me is my body, and then the rest of the world. And I am my thoughts. I mean, that's how people kind of experience themselves, but you're not your thoughts. You're not your body, you're the consciousness, or the awareness that is basically, you know, animating those forms animating that body. And that's how we go into the world. So truth seeking is really about peeling as much of the onion back as you can, I think, and really look at things like not on a superficial way, not just taking the, you know, what any popular media might feed us, but really look into things. Like what is really the structure of things? What is the structure of my thought patterns? Yeah, where is the ~ where do these patterns come from? And how can I change them? And I think there's, there's obviously, so many more areas where you can do is the same in health, you know, where does health come from? What is what does it mean, when my my body is in homeostasis? versus dissonance, right? Because it's an energy, it's an energy system. So, you know, if it's ill, it's in dissonance. So why is it not in coherence? And you know, you can ask yourself questions like, and then when you when you ask yourself question, and you educate yourself, you can you can ask like, Okay, well, modern Western medicine, in terms of trauma, medicine is the best in the world, if I break my leg, or, you know, I need some kind of mechanical operation. I mean, I wouldn't want anything else. But whether or not Western medicine, when we're talking about chronic illnesses, Western medicine is just treating effects. But you know, here we have a huge complex system called the body which is highly intelligent, it's incredibly fine to well beyond our wildest imaginations, how all this stuff works. And we have a very rudimentary understanding of it. But we're treating symptoms, we're not treating causes. And if we treat one symptom and we put some kind of chemical in the body, it affects the entire complex. And we really have no idea and then sometimes you might go to pick up something in a pharmacy store or something. And I see people refilling in medicine, and I see them like, thinking 6-7-8 medicines and different different doctors, which, you know, one doctor doesn't know the other doctor prescribed, and, you know, we put all that stuff in our body and then you know, we're really surprised when we're not healthy, right? And then, you know, we have the vaccinations right now, and you know, so just the other day, I had to do a COVID test. And I drive through there and you know, right right out in front of me was someone just out of McDonald's, you know, with big old supersize coke and burger in his hands, and you know, he's going through the same COVID line, and I'm like, you know, this is where we have come to, right. I mean, we think we can put all the junk food in us, we can think we can mistreat our body in so many different ways. And then a vaccine shot is going to safe us.  It's like, Is that truth? You know that that makes sense. So when I talk about truth seeking is like, you know, really looking to things, it has all the answers over there. Now, of course, we can get medicine from other people in terms of knowledge, and have people help us nationally gurus, dealer doctors, it doesn't matter coaches, you know, we can have people reach us medicine, but we're always going to be our own own healer. I don't believe in anybody being on a permanent, permanent crutch with anybody. I think all the answers are within.

Yeah, I agree. And the other thing about, you know, a lot of people are walking around, and you know, they're not consciously creating their life, they're just going through the motions with no emotion, and they're not even aware of it, and they're at the perfect place in their life. And, you know, I had to learn that through, you know, being a coach and mentor, and teacher and all the rest of the years that with close friends or something, and unless somebody asked for help, you know, I don't step in to that. They ask for the help, then I'll give it to them. Or if they want me to share something, or just listen to someone.  Now you work with companies and people, for them to help them to discover their big why now, the big why, for me is important is your vision in your life in all the areas you talked about? How do you help somebody discover their big Why because again, a lot of people are searching, they don't know where to how to do that. And, you know, they just get stuck.

Right? Yeah, sure. So I believe your Big Why is, I call it spiritual vision when I work with people, because I think, you know, we were each born here in with certain gifts with certain talents with certain superpowers. We have proclivities, we have things that we particularly like that we're really good at what comes natural to us. And a lot of these things, we can usually trace down to our early childhood, when we were playing the way we were playing the types of toys, we liked the type of games that we liked, how we express ourselves in life before, you know, all the programming came in place, right, what you were supposed to be and what you're supposed to be good at. And then you know, someone who went out and nothing against being a lawyer, but you know, someone that became a lawyer, because, you know, their parents thought it was a really wise career choice. Yes, because they were so passionate about being a lawyer. And, of course, there's also people that really want to practice law, and it's beautiful. And those people are always gonna be better naturally, than anybody does doing it just to make a paycheck. And, and we did, and by the way, the law profession here in the U.S., I think, is that it's the one profession with the highest suicide rates, which is very, very interesting. And it's actually quite dramatic in the US what's happening with suicide rates, in general. So that's an indication right, that people are in desperate places, and they're unhappy, and they feel stuck in their life. So when you find your why, or when you start on that journey, you really have to crystallize. You know, what's my spiritual vision, your spiritual vision is really your North Star, like, well, I want to bring in this life what what makes me happy? You know, what would be you know, Mark Twain has this beautiful quote, if you do what you love, you never work a day in life? Yes. And I think that is, there's so much profound wisdom in that and so many of us don't choose careers or expressions of vocations, because we're passionate about it, but we do it because we think it's going to be a steady paycheck, or our parents thought it was good or society thought that was a good career, or we thought it was safe or whatever. And I think many of us are therefore missing out on what's really driving us which what we're really passionate about. And once you find that, you know, you don't have to find motivation, because you were inspired. You know, it's a big difference. Motivation is a very weak muscle that tires easily. And inspiration is this kind of bottomless? Well, because you're just inspired. It's just something you want to do even practically, if you didn't get paid for it, you'd still be doing it. And it's always a good question to ask, like, what would I be doing if I was if I didn't need money? Because we get so blinded by just following the money and paying our bills and but we also create lifestyles that with bunch of debt on top. So we have to do this right? And you asked many people like, Well, you know, have you ever considered downsizing? Have you ever considered you know, chiseling away your debt, so you can make, you know, you have more freedom to make these decisions and things like that. And, you know, these are, of course, all the choices we make in our life. But I think it starts with finding the spiritual vision and it's always aligned with your talents, your gifts, your natural inches, what magazines or what TV programs do you watch, just out of interest. Where do you go on YouTube? What would you just be interested about learning about just because it's your interest? I always think it's in that area. It's always in that direction because these things are pointing you Where your natural talents and superpowers are?

Mm hmm. I also think, well, when you become more conscious, or if you start paying attention to your intuition and those little nudges, however they come to you like, I'm very connected to nature, and animal totems and my dreams and stuff and, and just listening and becoming quiet meditating every day, and just really going within and, you know, replenishing that well.  You know, if I feel like I'm off course, or, you know, being at home during this time, if I get snippy with my mom who's 93 or something, for some reason, I'm like, Alright Moira, you need timeout, you need to go walk in nature or something because that's not ~ that's not who you are. Like, that's just not the person. Talk about the emotional guidance system. So do you feel like people again, with that, what I just said, with intuition, if they go off course, they shift back into alignment? And, you know, talk about that, like, how does that show up with your experience?

Yeah, so first of all, everybody has an emotional guidance system, and it's just your body, your body is talking to you all the time, when you have a pit in your stomach, when you have a feeling in some way you have tingling, it could be goosebumps, it could be anything. And sometimes it's environmental, of course, I mean, if you're just having a chill, but you know, we are energetic beings, and we respond to this energy and even words and thoughts have contained energy. And so when we ask ourselves, I mean, when we for instance, you know, when we go buy a car, or buy a house, you know, we walk through his house, you know, instead of just looking at the physical features, and you can of course inspect and make sure to bathrooms that are color, you will like him or whatever, but you can ask yourself, you know, how do I feel in this house? You know, what is what is my stomach telling me? What is it you know, what is my gut that this expression, you know, and nobody my gut is, it's flawless, you know, we have so much wisdom in our body. And we have the same thing when something happens when there's a interaction with a certain person or sometimes you know, just a person and there's a room and you know, that person just gives us gives us the willies. You know, that's telling you something that's that's telling you like, you know, don't engage with a person, it's, you know, there's something energetically just not jiving conversely, there's also people we meet, and we're best friends in like, you know, 15 seconds, right? I mean, just energetically feel connected to them, their smile, their words, their voice, their feeling, what's an energetic thing. So we can follow these, you know, what I call emotional guidance system. And it's and it's absolutely flawless. Whenever we are in fear, you know, it's whatever in fear or doubt or anxiety, impatience, you know, worry, you know, any of those negative emotions, we're actually in the parasympathetic part of our nervous system, which means that's the fight and flight side of our nervous system. So all our critical organs shut down, everything is being prepared for an attack by like a saber toothed Tiger in our body. And it's actually during that time that our body kind of shuts off everything, that's not essential, which means that our digestion process is not really flowing, you know, none of that stuff. But we're also kind of cut off because we're flushed with flooded with adrenaline. And we're just really, like, focused narrowly focused on this environment right here. What we want to try to do is through breeding, for instance, is we can ask ourselves, what is why, why is this feeling there's gonna be something off, it's always in your thought patterns, because there's always something there. And when we do that, we can shift back to the parasympathetic nervous system, which is rest and relax. And that's where we actually have access to infinite intelligence. That's where we get it use intuitive bombs that come through these ideas that come through to serendipities that show up in our lives that we have eyes for. All those things happen when we're in a state, I call it the Zen state that you know, we're receptive to it. Now, when we're in a fear state, or a suffering state, we're not receptive to any of this, we're just looking out for immediate danger. And so we lose like all this perspective on life, all this wisdom that can come in that can flow through us that can guide us. And, and that's, that's a big part of, of this, of course, I'm summarizing, you know, something that's a big topic, you know, you can teach on for days, but that's, that's really at the essence of the emotional guidance system. It tells you exactly what's going on, you can make decisions based on that very accurately, because it comes from a much higher intelligence than just your mental mind.

I also think, when you make decisions, I was talking about not leaving the HOW to the universe because we don't know how things are going to unfold like we're looking at moving, selling our house probably this year. We have we have an idea very much what we not just an idea, we're very clear of what we want in the new home. Do we know how it's going to show up or where no, I don't have to worry about that. I just put out very you know the feeling of what I want to feel in this new home and experiences and, you know the that and the decisions when you talked about that when you make one decision, I think of it like a stepping stair to go up one stair, like walk up, now you see a whole new horizon, then you take action, then you take another step. And so it just unfolds in this beautiful, you know, way with the universe. And that's exciting. You know, you don't have to figure that part out. I want to talk a little bit about the state of Zen because you know a lot about Zen. And, you know, I was reading I don't know if you know, Robin Sharma's work we have, yeah. You know, he talks about Zen being speaks of a beginner's mind, and to keep your mind open to new concepts and ideas. Tell us how you would say, to get into the state of total peace and and also feel totally alive.

Right? Yeah, and I definitely agree. I mean, there's many descriptions, no, Zen zen, the word self itself comes from Japanese, right? It's not really related to Buddhism. It's a Japanese word, which means no mind. And, you know, we're in our Zen state, we're in a high frequency state. So we have emotions, like hope and gratitude and joy, compassion, peace, calm, you know, all the things that we want to feel that's around a Zen state. And when we're in zen, in the Zen state, which is, you know, just something I coined, I mean, other people call it a powerful state, or whatever, they might, might call it, I call it zen, you know, we're in a state of flow, you know, life is now flowing through us, intelligence is flowing through us, we don't have all these blockages, we, you know, we're listening to, you know, the soft whispers and the intuitive wisdom that's coming through us, we're listening to our emotional guidance system, we are alert for the serendipities in life that show up these little, you know, a book recommendation that we get somehow or some friend tells us something, and we find some piece of information we've been looking for for a while. Now, this is all a universe in full action. But most of the time, we're too blind for it, we don't see it, the universe is doing this all the time. It's literally leaving us breadcrumbs all the time, but we have to be alert to it. And we have to be in this calm state of mind, to have eyes for it, to listen for it, and not so much noise in our head, which is really old, a monkey chatter, which which crowds out this stuff. And that puts static on the line, so to speak. So when I think about zen, I think about being in this parasympathetic side of us this rest and relax, to really, you know, allow things to flow through us to see all the different nuances that life brings us all the little information pieces, and like you said, I mean, we're not responsible for how we're responsible for picking what we want in life and what we want to create in life. And then, you know, we do make our steps towards it. But the corresponding nature of life means that the universe corresponds to what we do. So when we set a goal, which is fought, which is energy, and we energize that with emotional load, because now we're starting to feel already, you know, that that energy of having whatever we want to have, and now we start making movements, we start making actions in that direction, then the reverse is just going to correspond, and the more energy we can put behind it, the more energy we put into the universe to respond back to us. So if we make very small little baby steps and very small little attempts, then you know, we're gonna get something back have a similar resonance. But if we make very bold and strong moves, then you know, we're gonna see that that comes back much more forceful from the universe, because you know, energy can't be destroyed, but it can be amplified. And we amplify it, we've our emotional charge behind it, and our desire behind it.

Definitely our desires, I believe our desires are put on our heart, because they're put there for us to go out and live them, whatever that is. And now one of your five whispering truths of Zen, which I know people will talk about later, they can go to your site, which they'll have, then they can sign up for your community and find out a lot more about Zen sin because I found it very beautiful. You talk about discomfort is beautiful. Tell me more about that.

Yeah, so anytime we grow, I mean, the mind is so obsessed with being in control and no change. Because no change is comfortable for the mind it because it can only base the mind only has the only library it has available as its experiences in its life. So you know, all the experiences that you've had in your life, that's the library that your mind draws from. So then by definition, a new experience that you haven't had previously is scary, because it's new. It's something that's different. It's something that you know, we haven't been there yet. So the mind is always going to resist that. It's just it's natural mechanism. It's never going to like doing something that it's that is new because it doesn't know it now once it knows it, it will become familiar with it. And then you Start doing it. And now a good example is learning how to ride a bike. You know, when you first sit on that bike, you know, you're scared, you're fearful, you don't really want to do, you're probably screaming at your parents, like, I don't want to do this, you know, and then eventually, you know, you learn how to balance and then eventually learn how to bike, and then you jump on a bike, and it's become like a new experience. So now it's no longer a threat of any sorts. Now, life is the same way. But, you know, if we, if we just do everything in our power to avoid discomfort, then we do everything in our power not to grow. Because our growth is always where the changes because everything you've already known, everything that you've already experienced, is within what you're already are. So any new experience that you want any, you know, bigger job, or bigger, money, or a new relationship you want or anything like that, it's always been in an area of growth, which is new territory, and we just have to be open to that. So changing our relationship with discomfort and seeing it as a pathway to growth, changes our dialogue internally, and we tell our mind to stand down and we say, No, we want this discomfort. Because we know within this discomfort is what we're actually seeking the experience that we're seeking our dream, you know, what we want is right behind this fear, right behind his fears, the magic that I'm actually wanting, I just need to get past this fear. And fear obviously, is illusionary it's just a mental concept. But you know, we so what when I talk about getting comfortable with discomfort is is just changing our relationship. And so when we're in discomfort, don't immediately retreat. Just lean into it and say, No, I want this comfort. That's exactly what I want. I mean, because I know that there's growth there, that means I'm growing, it means I'm evolving. That means I'm getting a greater understanding this is helping me. This is not like against me did I'm on my path. I'm not off my path.

And I think that's great. It's a it's a reframe, because I was thinking as you were talking at the beginning, it's funny, I went back to memory when my husband and soulmate Cliff and myself.  One of our first dates is we went skydiving, I said, you want to go skydiving. And he was like what? And so we went and I jumped out a few times, because I really liked it. Now, there was more like, uncertainty, not really fearful, but not sure, but also really excited. And so, you know, I think fear the acronym that I share is there's false evidence appearing real and and feeling excited and ready when you're not in a danger area. Like, you know, like, you're just, you're there's a fear there, but you're excited to go for it. So I love that everything you have on the different truths, and this would be great for people to read, because you just shared a real wisdom. You know, Gem there.  I'm going to ask you, you know, we started this conversation, our heartfelt conversation today, Robert, you know, with the beginning of the fairy tale, and I'd like to end it with the happily ever after ending story for you. Just where you're at and kind of your, your big, you know, your word for this year coming up, you know, 2021, and also the biggest takeaway that you would like to share this, you know, this other little Wisdom Gem with our listeners today.

All right.  There's there's many in terms of the fairy tale that I described with my now ex wife. I mean, it is a fairy tale in ways that we had a beautiful marriage, we have three amazing kids we are super friendly, we are very fluid in our arrangement. And we even still do all the holidays together, we do all the vacations together. And, you know, when we got divorced, I told her, I wasn't the best husband in the world. But I commit to being a world class ex husband, so you know, within everything, there's an opportunity. And so that's my commitment towards her. And we've been able to build up a beautiful relationship. She's moved on, and she is very happy with, you know, her partner in her life, and the kids are thriving. So, you know, I think that's a happy ending. Yeah, it's obviously not the Hallmark card version of happy ending. But, you know, the reality of life is that sometimes, you know, things are better paths diverged and, you know, you just need to do it in the best way you can. I'm in a, I'm in a, in a good place. I just released this book that I'm really excited about. I'm launching this new business that I'm, you know, I'm humbled by because I think there's a what I noticed once I started going on this path, there's a lot of people that have similar experiences, or they're stuck. And I think there's a lot of work that can be done with leaders, you know, corporate leaders and high impact entrepreneurs that I can work with and optimize their performance and maybe not so much financially, but just, you know, make them happy in what they do and give them more purpose and, and show them how they can elevate their life on multiple levels, even their domestic lives, and how much that will benefit in the expression they bring into this world and how much good to can do for the businesses that they run, and how big of an impact they can have on this world. So I'm excited about that work. And, you know, my, my, my word for this year is, is magic.

Very nice.

I think last year was, was, I think for everybody kind of a shock. I didn't necessarily, I don't remember what my name or my word was for last year, but I feel like going into 2021. You know, we all create our own magic. And that's, that's kind of our responsibility at the end of the day. And, and so, you know, that's kind of what I want to create, I want to create a bunch of magic this year. And whatever that means for me, of course, that's different for everybody. 

That's wonderful. Robert, please share with our listeners, the special gift you like to gift with them today. And I want everybody to know that all the links to the gift, and where you can find Robert and more about Zen.

Well, thank you.  And you know, your listeners should really thank you, because you obviously, you know, inquired if that was possible. And I love how you want to give value to your listeners. So yeah, what we've done is, we've taken the first chapter of ~ there's three parts to the book, and we've taken a first chapter of each book, so people can get a little, you know, read and familiarize themselves and see if the book might be of any interest or any, any help.  The parts are quite different, so that's why we picked kind of a first chapter from each part gives you a little bit of a flavor of, you know, what the book covers and the writing style that I have. And if people are interested in that, then the book is available on Amazon, obviously, I would love for you to buy a copy if you if you're so inclined. I have a website www.neverenoughitis.com. And there's more information on the book there. There's your podcast link that will also be there. There'll be other podcasts or news media things that I've done. And you can sign up there as well. And that's where you get the five truths of the Zen mastery primer. And so that's about 50 pages of I think it's pretty chock full of value. I wrote it myself ~ it is some of the things that didn't make itself into the course that I'm developing, but they're true wisdoms that I felt like needed to be shared. And so I put them in this primer, and they're available for free. If you sign up on on that website. You can follow me on Instagram at the Zen Whisperer. And similarly, I have a page on Facebook at the Zen Whisperer. So I think those are the best places to find me right now.

Yeah, we'll put those below. So Robert, thank you for sharing from your heart and soul today, your wisdom on Neverenoughitis and How to Thrive in the New World.  Namaste.

All right. Thank you so much. I really enjoyed it.

Thank you.

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