Intro: Welcome to the Heart Soul Wisdom Podcast, a journey of self discovery and transformation. Moira Sutton and her amazing guests share real life stories, tools, and strategies to inspire and empower you to create and live your best life. Come along on the journey and finally blast through any fears, obstacles, and challenges that have held you back in the past so you can live your life with the joy, passion, and happiness that you desire. Now, here's your host. Create the life you love. Empowerment life coach moira Sutton.

Moira: Welcome to season four, episode 89, the Law of Polarity and Creating Your Best Life, with author, speaker, coach, and entrepreneur Gillian Harper. Gillian helped build Australia's number one franchise, served as an executive for a US. Inc. 500 business and has practiced as a finance attorney with an Australian top three firm. She has also been an international speaker and coach for more than 20 years. Julian knows firsthand that the boundaries that divide our careers and our home life can be blurred. And one thing is for certain, it is hard to reach your potential without a solid foundation. After her own foundation crumbled and she almost lost everything, Gillian became a devout student of all things energy. It was the little-known Law of Polarity that finally brought her life back from the brink. By combining her knowledge of polarity with her business and coaching acumen, Gillian developed an energy field system that she shares in her wonderful book, feed the Tiger, Free the Dragon, to assist you to create and maintain a more powerful, passionate, and fulfilling life. So, without further ado, I would like to introduce you to Gillian Harper. Welcome, Gillian.

Gillian: Hi. Thanks so much for having me.

Moira: Yes and again, I want to say to you, Gillian's been so wonderful moving about with me. My mom went into hospital for a month. We had a lot of things going on, and I literally couldn't think other than going to the hospital every other day for hours. So, Jillian was so kind to move, and now we get to meet, and you get to hear her lovely wisdom from her heart and soul.

Gillian: So.

Moira: Thank you, Jillian.

Gillian: Yeah, thank you. I was more than happy to do whatever I could to support you.

Moira: I hear that, and I appreciate it a lot. So, let's start at the beginning on how you discovered the law of Polarity and how did this, as we said in the intro, finally bring your life back for the brink. What happened?

Gillian: Yeah. So, my husband and I have been together now for almost 20 years, and after my children were born, we went through a huge change. A lot of challenges I discovered infidelity in our marriage, I discovered sort of all of the foundation that I thought our relationship had been built on had sort of instead of being a rock, it sort of was a pile of rubble, essentially. And it was hard. It was a really hard time. And so, everything that I assumed about my life, I had to reconsider. I had been a workaholic, I had been fairly narcissistic and self obsessed, and now I was sitting in a pile of rubble at home with essentially two babies. At this point. I had a ten-month-old and a two-year-old, and I really just had to assess everything. The easy thing to do in that situation would have just said, this is knowing your fault, this mess. And there was an element of that. But I also wanted to take pause in this real moment of trauma in my life to say, okay, how did we get here? What did I do? How did I contribute to this? Actually, the author, Esther Pharrell, had a great quote, particularly she does a lot of wonderful writing. She's a psychiatrist that helps infidelity and she know in the case of affairs, it takes three people to have an affair. And that really landed with me. And I was like, okay, what was my role in all of that? And how do I assess everything and part of that journey, I did everything. I read every resource I could. I had that obsessed career brain of mine, and overdrive I was reading podcasts, listening, writing seminars. I was like, where am I? How did I get here? And part of that journey, one of the things I stumbled across was this law of polarity, this idea of the masculine and the feminine energy. And it was kind of this light bulb moment. I remember sharing it with my husband, who joined me on this journey because he was very invested in our relationship and saving it and doing what he could to support me and us to heal and save our little family. And so, everything I learned, he learned along the way. And as soon as we sort of had this language, it was a shift, like a seismic shift. I was like, this explains kind of what we've been through over the last decade, and it helped us then to rebuild. So, yeah, that's the journey to the topic anyway.

Moira: First of all, for you to make that decision, to take a responsibility, and that's quite the line, what you just said. It takes three people to have an affair, and what was my part in it? That takes a very mature outlet for you to question that and then bring your husband decided to come along also, and the two of you worked on that to build that foundation again, because a lot of people, you had little children, the ten-month-old, the two-year-old. And I just want people to hear that, that there is light at the end of the tunnel, and there is that three people. And the importance of saving that. Do you think you would have gone that route if you didn't have children? Do you think you still would have stepped up and looked at your responsibility?

Gillian: Great question. Yeah, and I think about that a lot. And I think part of it, the pause, was really, you're in it with babies. We were in it. And I remember when everything really went down at the very start, he was like, Well, I'll pack my bags, I'll go and get an apartment and I'll move out. Remember looking at him and saying, no, you won't. I have the two-year-old and the ten-month-old. You will move downstairs to the guest room and you will help do all the dad things because you are not leaving. We're Australian. You can tell by my accent.

Moira: I love your accent.

Gillian: Thank you. Have that network. My mom wasn't here. I didn't have all the village to support me. And so, I was like, oh, no. And I think about that because I think having the babies at the age, they were really that pause for me to say, no, let's do some more work? And I don't know, I think about that regularly. I think if they weren't there, I don't know if I would have put in the work. And that's why I think, firstly, I actually am so grateful for what we went through. And I think most traumas people talk about that. Like any style of trauma people will say, oh, I never want to go back to the person. I was pre trauma because I learned so much. And as painful as it was, I just also love the way that I was able to grow as a human through that journey. So, it really was a blessing that we paused and had the babies. And I do think of that fighting doors moment, if it had happened three years earlier, I think I would have just said, you're a bad person, I'm a good person, and See you later. And then you go, well, how long before I just recreated that scenario with the next person? Probably. And I'm not sure. So fun to think about, right? And who knows, really? But I am appreciative that it was this sticking point where I didn't feel like I felt like I needed to do the work, whether that was divine guidance or whatever, but it was an interesting time.

Moira: I always say to people and my clients, I get them to ask when they come up to an obstacle or challenge and myself, what is the gift in this? Or what is the gift? Because I believe there's a gift in every moment, like you did. You stepped up to really grow and expand and learn and be stronger in the end. And like, we started with saying about my mom being in the hospital and that and it really got me to pause and really think, know, look at changes I want to make in myself and in my life. And so, it gets you to question things that you might just go merrily along and just ignore it like every but so you've come up with this great title, feed the Tiger, Free the Dragon, create the Passion, Freedom and Respect You Deserve. How did you come up with that? Because I know we talked just briefly about masculine feminine. How did you come up with that title? Because it's brilliant.

Gillian: Yeah. Thank you. I discovered this topic. I really started to deeply study this masculine and feminine energy and how it works in relationships to create validity as well as passion. Right. So, each person in a relationship having balance and taking a pole in that kind of idea of duality, sort of this ancient one. We can chat about that in a second. But what I did find, though, as we were doing the work was that and I started writing the book and I would start talking to people about this as a topic. And I don't know if it was just at the time, at the time when I was writing it, but people I got a lot of resistance, particularly to using the language of masculine and feminine. It really triggered people, particularly women, if I was like, well, the feminine energy is this, the masculine is that. I found that people were uncomfortable with those terms, which is strange, but it was my real experience with it. And so, as I wrote, I said, I need a new language. So, I revisited the ancient origins of this law, particularly Taoism, and they used a lot of symbology. And the dragon was frequently used as a symbol for the masculine energy. And the tiger was used a lot for the feminine energy. And I thought, wow, that's just great. And as soon as we subbed that language out, even in our own relationship, as we were testing all this stuff and I was coaching on it, people were so much more open because tigers are fierce and wild and strong and all the things and powerful just as much as the dragon is just different. And that was better because sometimes when you say, well, the feminine might be the negative and that's positive, there's light, there's dark, all these sorts of dual elements, it took away that idea of one being less than, which we tend to just associate with this masculine feminine concept. So, yeah, that's how we came up with it. And so, we found that needing to feed our tiger energy and then really free and let go of our dragon energy within us was really powerful for us to practice in our daily lives. So that's where the title came from.

Moira: Wow.

Gillian: Long response.

Moira: No, I love that. And very interesting what you said about the masculine and feminine that people were uncomfortable with.

Gillian: That interesting. Well, we spend so much time now sort of living close to the center. And that is one of the concepts behind the book, which is in this modern age, we're sort of particularly working from home and working together, and we have this idea of a partner where they need to be our everything. They need to be our best friend, our Jimmy buddy. And we're going to do all these things together, and we spend all this time together and we're all working and we're all doing everything so energetically. We come really close to the center. So, this idea that it's okay to be different, it's okay to part from each other a little bit and embrace, though the space between us instead of commonality was just also, it can be a challenging concept for people too, because we've sort of been trained to live close to the middle, be a little bit more like each other. Women are encouraged to really embrace more of their masculine they're doing, and men are really encouraged to soften and be more emotional. And so, yeah, it's interesting and I think it just depends on a lot of people how they've grown up with those terms as to whether they get triggered or not.

Moira: Yeah, I know. Growing up in my family, it was that traditional. My dad went to work, my mom stayed at home. She kept the books and cooked and he didn't go in the kitchen or anything. And then when I grew up, when I started dating and all that, I first got engaged where it didn't work out, but it was like, no, I thought that was the role at that time, I believed in it. But as that didn't work, by the time I met my beautiful soulmate, Cliff, and we've been together married 32 years now.

Gillian: Wow, congrats.

Moira: Yeah. And we'll talk. It'd be interesting how I go down some of the things I'm going to ask you, but yeah, no, by the time we met each other, I was 30, he was 40. We thought, we're not changing for the other person. What you see is what you get because we had done the other route. Let's talk about this opposite subtract. And you talk about if a couple spends so much time together that they become energetically similar. Expand on that because I spent a lot of time with Cliff. We're both entrepreneurs. We both work from home. We have for years. In our case, we absolutely were more in love now than the day we married. We know that. And that's by going through all the different things for the years. And my mom always laughs when she sees us. She goes, how do you guys talk when you have coffee? And that what else do you have to say? Like she wonders. Or even if we're in a store and he goes off and he comes back or, I don't know, he's coming in the store like he's resting in the car or something. We do that. One of those there used to be a commercial where two people see each other and they're running slow motion towards each other. That's what we have. But we're very I wonder about this what you're saying about the opposites to track, because we attracted like that. But we spent a lot of time together, and so I want to hear what you're saying about that with being you become energetically similar.

Gillian: Yeah. And that doesn't happen for everybody. It doesn't. A lot of people, to your point, I think you're saying you met later, you're a little bit more certain about who you were. And as you came together, you're able to sort of maintain that sense of self, but now attach to another person. And when you think about this idea of, we all kind of get born with this knowledge, this awareness. And it really doesn't matter what religion you subscribe to Christianity, Hindu, whatever there is this idea of feeling incomplete on our own. This idea that when you finally meet that person, you're meant to be with you feel whole, like they complete you, like you are half of a puzzle. It's that Yin Yang symbol. And I think to your point, when you were certain of yourself and him and you come together, you do get this sense of like, wow, this feels right. And that is such a beautiful thing. And Peter and I had that too, at the beginning of our relationship. What happened over time, I was actually more in the masculine energy, the doing energy. I was 19, I was going to conquer the world, and I'm at law school and had all this drive and vision, and that is very much the math energy. And Peter was this like cruiser surfy guy closet going like would surf. And he was more than happy just kind of like to be that fluid part of our relationship. And he helped soften me. He was fun, he was light. I was so attracted to that because I was so serious all the time. But over the years, as we changed and evolved in our relationship, that was when we really did start to merge our energies. I got a little older, I softened, particularly after the kids were born. I sort of wasn't as motivated as maybe earlier was or different things. And then he obviously really stepped into his career and started to build it and really became much deeper into his masculine energy. And then we were just kind of the same. We were almost two masculine energies in a relationship, and it felt abrasive. So not what you get to feel with your beautiful life partner. For a long time, instead of completing each other, we were competing with each other. You could feel it. It was like tension. Just constantly jockeying for control, right? Who wins, who's right this time? Who leads, who does that? And people will feel that in relationships and that sort of will zap that fluidity, that sense of completeness where you go, oh, no, we're not completing each other anymore. This feels wrong. And that was where we were for a long time. Without wanting to acknowledge it because we were all the other things to each other. We were still best friends, we were financial partners. He was my mentor. We still spent all our times together. And to your point, there was no shortage of things to talk about ever. I mean, we could be with each other 20 hours a day and there was still plenty for us to fill the space with. But it wasn't necessarily in the way that you want in that romantic relationship. It was a different kind of connection and everyone's a little bit different and has their own, I think, story or version of how polarity play out for them. And that was how it played out for us, which is sort of what brought us to this. And as soon as we understood that Peter was like, yes, that's what I feel. And I was the same. Yeah. It was really fantastic to finally have some words around it to describe our journey of change, I guess.

Moira: I love that. And the communication part, as you know, people say to us, they see that we lasted and still in love in that. Because even in the hard times, we talked, we communicated, and that was the biggest thing. And we learned not to come from blame or pointing fingers to like you talked about at the beginning, taking responsibility for not judgment or anything, but just taking responsibility for your own actions and then looking for a solution from that, like communicating. Jillian, you talk about pushing into opposing. Let's go back into that more because I think you have tools designed to help you push deeper into those respective opposing energies. And you talk about in order to create more space and more desire between you and your partner. Let's talk about this pushing into opposing energy. Quite a concept.

Gillian: It is, yeah. So that idea of polarity, as I said, people with the same energy, so if you have two masculine energies, you will tend to repulse each other, whereas if you have opposite, it will create that desire, attraction. So having someone dominantly in a masculine energy or the dragon energy and someone dominantly in the tiger is what creates that space that draws you to each other, that sense of oneness and unity. So, it's understanding that and going and understanding in your relationship, the day to day aside, when we're all doing and maybe not overly conscious, right, where we all sort of live in the middle energy for a lot of us, what is your dominant energy? What's your partner's dominant energy? Who is the dominant masculine? And for the most of us, we all contain both, by the way, make that really clear. We all have the masculine, we all have the feminine within us. The idea of the half Yin Yang single, whereas, like the white, the black, dot and reverse, we have like these 70 30 ratios for the most part. Some of us are really deep, some of us are like 90, 1099, ten. But for the most part, we're all sort of that 70 30, depending on our environment. So, it's understanding that. It's understanding like, okay, when I'm happy, when I'm laxed, I know my dominant energy is actually the feminine. And Peter, my husband, is Dylan and really saying, okay, if we're going to work in our relationship and to your point about communication, let's talk about this. What do we need to do to help encourage ourselves? How can I sort of help push him deeper in his if he's maybe leaning a little bit too in his feminine and you'll feel it because you'll kind of be repulsed by it. It's one of those funny things, like if Pete spends too long in his feminine energy, I'll be like, oh no, I don't like this. If I'm like chewing my masculine, he'll be like, oh yeah, this isn't sexy. So, understanding where you're at in the relationship at any given time and then using the tools so understanding the masculine energy grows strong through things like competition and challenge and having a clear sense of purpose, through self respect, through a mission, all of these things can help drive us into that masculine. And then on the feminine side, it's things like it's more about our feelings being seen, being loved, letting go, surrendering to our feelings, not trying to be in control all the time, instead of really thinking everything through, moving more into our heart and feeling it through my nervous system. Just relaxes. Even as I say those words, I can literally feel it in my body. So yeah, it's appreciating that. And there are sort of tools where firstly, the first step is to understand your energy. Most people will get it. Like, you'll say some of these words out loud. You'll say, are you more motivated by freedom or love? Do you prioritize sort of work and missions versus your relationship? Do you have more pleasure in your life if you are challenged? Or do you feel more pleasure if you're connected to other humans? And once you sort of understand that and you understand your partner, you can work on it. You can say, okay, I'm at the end of my day. Yes, I've been at work do all day, or whatever, even in the home being organized. But now I'm here with my partner. I want to shed that. I want to let go and work a little harder on releasing that masculine energy and bringing to our relationship that beautiful feminine gift that I have to bring.

Moira: I'm really listening.

Gillian: Does that make sense?

Moira: Yeah, there was a lot in there. Well, don't you think everyone wants freedom? Don't you think that's sort of like just a human condition, that freedom, that we all want that or you're saying, no, we do.

Gillian: And that's within all of us. From the true dominant masculine, feminine standpoint, though, I had to choose the narrator, right? And one of the ones that I think about with Peter and I is when you sort of do these little tests, I guess for yourself, it's like if you have to choose which one's more important, which we don't, we rarely have to. Right? But like in a scenario where say we were talking about our children and freedom from financial restraints or freedom from financial restraints is a big one, particularly for the masculine. Like the masculine energy prioritizes money. It's a measure. It's the way they can view their life as successful. It's objective, it's something they can tangibly work towards. Like it's a goal. My bank account balance reflects my worth. That's quite a masculine concept. Whereas the feminine energy attitude towards money can be quite different, like the dominant feminine energy. So, we think about, let's say freedom of having financial security as a concept and we think about our children, right? So, Peter and I will talk about this and we'll say, okay, if I had to choose in my feminine energy, if I had to choose between having a big bank account balance or my children knowing that I deeply love them, if I'm choosing freedom over love, I'm going to choose love. It's going to be my choice. Every day of the week. We'll work out the money, but I'm here and I'm going to nourish you and love you. And it's more important to me that you feel love. If I said the same thing to Peter, I said, what's more important to you? That you're providing for your children or that they know you love them? And he's like, oh no, that I provide. I'm going to do the right thing and I'm going to provide for them. If they don't get it and they don't feel love, then that's secondary. The love will hopefully come later when they realize I'm doing the right thing by them. So, it's like slightly different attitude. Whereas I would never think like that in my feminine energy. I don't know. How does that one land for you?

Moira: Oh, it lands perfectly. Just like you said, with freedom. I love freedom. Just that idea. But if you did it in the way that you said versus love in your children yeah, there's nothing bigger than that. I love my husband. That's important.

Gillian: Right.

Moira: But the children, that was a really good example. You talked about freedom, phantoms. What are they?

Gillian: It's this idea that the masculine really does have in their mind, this idea of freedom. Like, I will be happy when and the feminine has the same thing. I will be happy when I'm free from my bosses nagging my financial controls. I'm free from whatever it is the masculine is feeling trapped by at a particular point in time. And they're all these different freedoms. Like I'm free from my sexual desire to want to sleep with someone else. I'm free from my overweight. Once I can just lose this weight, I'll be free of that. It's this constant chasing of this idea of I'm restricted and I'm caged and I'm going to break free of this restraint today. And it's like almost every day there's a new one. But the real freedom, like the real power in the masculine energy comes from this idea of you are already free in the infinite of the moment. If the masculine can be truly grounded and truly conscious, which is the masculine gift, is conscious. It's consciousness. It's bringing their presence to any given moment. They are actually already free. They don't need to chase these things. Just being there, being strong, being conscious is enough. All these other things they're chasing won't actually bring them happiness. It's just another thing to chase. They're chasing their tail over and over again. The next thing, the next goal, it be here, be conscious, be strong, be grounded and realize that they already have everything that makes them happy. It's like the ultimate, isn't it? It's the ultimate for everybody. If we can just live truly in a present moment and realize that we have everything we need, we can be everything we need to be. Really? That's a heavy concept.

Moira: No, for me, that was a very powerful message for people to really know they're free in the moment and that we're infinite beings and it's the infinite, that infinite moment of infinite possibilities. Infinity. Right?

Gillian: Yeah. And that's what they're chasing, ultimately, is.

Moira: That through all these things, literally, with what you just said, I have some other challenges in my life right now. I have this year, but just what you said, it was interesting. It sort of, let me go. I don't have to even deal with that thing. Just do one more step and then don't think about it. That kind of thing. That is fantastic. Yeah, very good. Why is it important that you talk about a tiger constantly and relentlessly testing the dragon to see if they waver from their purpose, mission, and decisions. Testing comes in many forms. What might that look like?

Gillian: Oh, man. Testing is fun. Testing. And it's really hard for tigers do not test. This is the big thing, the feminine energy. We're so obsessed, like we're the opposite of, I guess, the masculine, which is, I will be happy when I'm truly seen and loved. It's this idea of receiving enough love. And we are constantly setting up our partners to test, see if we are safe and if they are strong enough for us to show them all the love in our heart. Right? We have all this love to give. We have all this love we want to receive. And a lot of the time we hold back that love. We have this infinite love because we're scared maybe someone hurt us in our childhood apartment, damaged us, a friend, whatever it might be that we go, oh, no, I don't necessarily feel safe to show all of you and give all of. This. And I'm going to test you to see if you really do love me the way you say you do. So, it might look like we might say, you know what? I'm going to surrender to you tonight. And it could be the smallest thing. Smallest thing. So, I'll give you an example, which is tiny, but it really does demonstrate is really letting go to decision making, which is something that tigers need to practice, that helps us move into our feminine energy. So, it might just be a takeout, right? And this is like a constant fight in our house. It'll be we're all tired, we're all hungry. But I was like, done. I'm like, I don't want to make any more decisions. I just want to let go. I want someone to look after me. Just order me dinner, right? Our dragons are nervous because they're like, oh, this is a test. I was like, no, it's not a test. Just order me dinner. Yeah, okay. But if I ordered the wrong food, you're going to be angry like, oh, no, I'm not right now. Trust me, please. This is not a test. But how many times have we said that? And they go, well, let's order pizza. And you go, oh, you didn't remember? I don't eat gluten. You know, I'm not doing dairy right now. Like, if you loved me, if you really loved me and you listened to me, you would know that pizza is a terrible choice. And okay, we'll do sushi. Oh, you know, I'm not eating carbs. It's like this constant at all for control. And we're like setting up our partner. We're setting up our dragon constantly. Even the smallest choice can be a test of their love. Do they really think about me? Are they really paying attention? Do they really care? Instead of just really surrendering and really letting them just do it without judgment and eating the ******* pizza, I was.

Moira: Going to say, what do you do? Eat the pizza.

Gillian: Eat the pizza. Just eat the pizza. Don't test. Figure it out. Reward the fact that they took it over. But all sorts of tests, they pop up all the time like planted seeds. Will you do this for me? And if you forget, will you don't love me? You're not loving me enough. Do you remember these things instead of just realizing that that's not how the masculine is thinking? They are not prepared for that. They are just doing the thing. They're doing the next thing in front of them. And it's not necessarily because they don't love you or they don't remember. They're just programmed differently.

Moira: I hear you. What do you think of they came up with a concept of not a woman's cave, but a man's cave so he can go off and be in his space. Yeah, I think that because, like, here we have a loft that we're building over our garage. We moved to Nova Scotia two years ago and literally Cliff was kind enough also to wait for that to get built. We're still in the process of it being done. But he's out there and he loves it because it's quiet, no one bothers him. And I'm kind of a little jealous, but not really jealous.

Gillian: But I'm sort of like, maybe you.

Moira: Want my sunroom office, which is gorgeous. It over the lake and it's really nice. And I've had it for the two years. I said, maybe you can have that and I'll be out there now that it's like Bill, but it's his man cave. And I get it, him being out there. But I've been talking about I don't know if we're going to do it like building a bunkie for me to have my woman's cave because we all need space. You talk about creating space.

Gillian: Yeah, it literally will recharge his energy. It's so beautiful that you pay attention to that. And I actually refer to it as like the den of solitude in my book because the masculine really does love alone time. They like to be alone with their thoughts. It's how it recharges. The masculine doesn't need to be in community all the time. That's the feminine energy in us that wants to be building up each other and talking and communicating. That makes us strong. Masculine having time on their own is so important. Being alone with their thoughts, being alone with their Hobbies or spending other time with other people in their masculine helps recharge their energy as well. Doing things physically that challenge them. Like, I remember my grandfather used to have his going out to his woodworking shop for his hobby where he could really just get lost for hours and hours in his hands and his craft. It was so tactile and challenging for him, so important. And it's important too. Not like the temptation too. It's just like you want to go into the den, you're like, oh, what's happening in there? Yes, that looks really fun. Maybe I build a den next door and can I share your den? And they're like, no, get out. It's exactly that or my space. Yeah, it's so drawn to it. It's captivating. I call it like taking the dragon throne. Like, wow. When the masculine goes into that den and grows strong, it's actually very attractive. We're so drawn to it. Anyway.

Moira: No, I love this. I think also there was a gentleman who he had a great thing about the brain of a woman and a brain of a man and he literally had like this image of a brain on stage and he would talk about that kind of thing. The man going into the cave and the woman saying, what are you doing in there? Can I come in and clean there? And all this and there's like, no, you can't come in there. Or the concept too with men. I could never get my head around this where you might ask a man, not so much a know, what are you thinking? And like, Cliff will do this. Nothing. What do you mean nothing? How can you think nothing? I could not get that. I try that one on, but it's pretty hard, I find.

Gillian: Yeah. Or they'll be focused on something very specific. And again, they might be in their mental dan of solitude and they might be thinking about something. Maybe it's a problem they're trying to solve. And the masculine energy wants to really solve problems on their own. They want to fix it and they want it to go away. And a lot of times, yeah, they might be there, they might be thinking about it even subconsciously, like a problem. And then we're literally even there in their mental den of solitude going, well, let me in, I could fix it for you. Tell me what's going on in there mentally. I've got ideas on that. Let's talk about it. Because the masculine wants to reduce, wants to make problems smaller, whereas the feminine energy wants to make them bigger. We want to grow them and let them grow into something bigger until we can understand the world and feel it all through. So, yeah, it's interesting. So even if they are thinking, they probably won't share because they're like, no, I don't want you in that. I don't want you on that thought with me. Please just leave me on the den and let me think about my problem until it goes away.

Moira: Now, you have a meditation I would love you to share, becoming a mindful dragon. Meditation, is that something we could do right now?

Gillian: Sure, I would love to. And so, this one is very specifically for the dragons, I guess listening or perhaps you're in the middle and you would like to spend some time deeper in your dragon. Maybe you need to evoke that dragon energy to solve a problem. Maybe in the workplace, because it is fluid, we can draw on both. Maybe you are deeply feminine, but you have a problem that needs to be solved or a task that needs to be completed. So, this is something that can help drive you there.

Moira: That's a great point. Okay.

Gillian: If your thoughts and emotions are running wild, then this idea that our consciousness isn't free, it's bound and trapped by our mind. And in your quest for ultimate happiness through freedom, a dragon must also be free to find the infinite in the moment. Trying to use let's try and use this dragon grounding technique to free the mind from these, like, wild thoughts and emotions. So firstly, let's find a place. Be still and alone. Sit comfortably and close your eyes. Now visualize your body. Notice how strong it is. Take three deep breaths. Start to lengthen your spine. Fill your entire body as you breathe. As you breathe in, feel how long, straight, and strong your spine is. Feel how strong your thighs are, how strong your groin is. Take another deep breath. Truly feel your strength. Now visualize the base of your spine. You're a dragon. Begin to see and feel that. And extending from the base of your spine, you have a long, strong dragon tail. Feel that tail. Feel its strength and feel it move. Now that you own your tail, imagine pushing your dragon's tail deep into the Earth like push it through the surface. It's long, it's strong, and it can penetrate all the way to the center of the Earth and coil itself around the molten lava at the Earth connected with your tail. You're now one with the Earth and firmly anchored by its fiery center. You are grounded. You are strong. Stay like that, foiled to the center of the Earth, and take a deep, slow breath. As you inhale, visualize the fire from the Earth's core traveling up your tail into your groin, into your belly and filling your lungs. Do it again. Breathe in, this time deeper. With each inhale, the Earth magma travels up your tail and fills your entire body with fire and strength. Your body is now a fiery ball of power and energy. Now take another deep breath. Slow, fiery breath. This time. Focus on the exhale. And as you breathe out, imagine all of those thoughts that are trapped in your mind getting pushed out of your mouth in a fiery ball. All that fear, doubt, insecurity as you exhale, watch those thoughts. Just leave your body in a fiery ball. Watch the fire leave and completely melt them away into ash and vapor. Watch the black smoke just rise into the air and disappear. Now slowly come back to your body. Oil your tail from the center of the Earth and boil it now at your feet. Slowly, gradually feel your body start to cool. Feel relief from the fire. Be free. Be grounded. Be stronger. Activity.

Moira: That is so powerful.

Gillian: Yeah. Thank you.

Moira: Very powerful. I could feel it tingling through my whole body.

Gillian: Great.

Moira: That's a good one to use.

Gillian: It's a good one. Yeah. If you can get your dragon on board and they need to go deep, it's a great one. Or even, as I said yourself, if you're in the feminine and need a moment to really dig deep, that's a good one to practice.

Moira: Wonderful. You have so much information here. I took your book, not in one sitting for sure, but went through it and then recorded it and highlighted it. And it was a really different way to look at Polarity. I feel this will be so helpful to the listeners because I know it's brought a lot to me, especially just even that exercise again. Now I'm wondering where I want to go with you, because there's a lot I want to ask. Well, the other thing I know you talk about the crazy Ten scale, and I know also, do you think that would be something we want to jump into or do we want to jump into? Okay, let's go. What is that? Crazy ten scale.

Gillian: Crazy ten. Okay, this is a fun one. We just did a dragon activity. So, this is like now a little counterbalance to that. Kind of another personal challenge, I guess, for the tiger, for our feminine energy. And the concept is really this idea of surrendering, releasing, letting go. Because that's the gift that the feminine brings to any relationship is this wildness, this feeling, this emotion. And it's really beautiful and captivating. Like there's nothing more attractive to a dragon than a truly free, wild, pleasure filled, embodied feminine. It really is all that because it's everything they can't be. It's the same that we feel on the other side with a dragon. That when they can stay strong and centered and focused, when we kind of feel like we've lost all control. It's such an important counterbalance for both. So, it really came through from that with this idea of rupture. And the feminine needs to rupture. And what we tend to do is when things get stressful, in particular, is we build, as I mentioned before, the dragon. When they get stressed, they like to make the problem smaller and then for it to go away, the feminine tends to, when it's stressed and overwhelmed, wants to make the problem big. So, a problem today becomes day's problem and yesterday's problem and the thing that happened three years ago and the small things plus the big things. And we kind of build, build until we really do rupture it and feel the whole thing through. And then it's like a popped balloon and we go, okay, I feel better now. It can end up in this. So, it sort of came from that. This idea of the crazy ten is like when we hit that rupture point, I call it the ten when we really hit that, let go. And what tends to happen in relationships with our partner is we never let ourselves get to our crazy ten. Like, we're scared. We're scared that if we really let go and feel our anger or our emotion or even our joy all the way to their true number ten, our partner won't be there. They won't handle it. They'll think we're crazy and they'll leave. And so, in the past, when we were having fights, peter and I, we might get to like a three or a four. Like, I'd get really mad, but I'd want to say more, I'd want to let more out. But I would walk away or he would walk away, which was even he'd be like, you're getting to upset. I'm leaving now. I'll be back when you've calmed down. You're being irrational. This very masculine way of approaching the issue, which what I actually needed in the moment was to be able to just say it all as crazy as it was and as irrational as it was and have him bear witness him stand there in the masculine and be strong enough to handle it and to hold me in my pen. And what happened throughout trauma is like, peter was so resolved to make it work. He was so resolved to stay and stay with our family and try and fix whatever he could. And part of that, which was and came through our therapy sessions together, we had a fabulous therapist who worked with a lot together as a couple, was just stay. Just don't leave. When you're having a fight and it gets bad, just stay in the room until the very end, until Jillian has said everything she needs to say. And what I found is, with that in mind, I could lose it. I would get to the tent. I mean, I could cry and yell and scream and throw things if I needed to. And he would just say, okay, I'm here for it. I'm not going anywhere. What else have you got? And I'd say, well and I'd throw more at him. He'd go, what else? What else? And I felt so safe that, honestly, I could get to my ten. And I go, thank you. He'd be like, you're welcome. Let's go for a walk. Let's have a glass of wine, cup of tea. It was over. But if we hold back and we don't let it through, you can end up having a million arguments about the same thing, because you never feel it through to its rupture. You never get to just fully let yourself surrender to your emotions. So that was the idea of the crazy ten. Yeah.

Moira: Another powerful exercise to do. And again, as I told you, I've been having different things happen. The last week in particular, and even before this interview, I was talking to Cliff about something that's bothered me, and it's not done with yet, but with this, after our interview, I'll be looking at you know, one thing I find in my case is that I sometimes set up the intention. When Cliff and I talk, I just want you to listen. Just be there and listen. I don't want you to say anything. I don't want you to talk. I want you to listen. And you know when somebody's listening to you. He even asked me this morning. He was like, I said, that thing still bother me. I'm waking up. And he said, well, how is that serving you right now? And I said, whatever. What was around it? But yeah, just listening and understanding that I'm upset about something that's sort of like witnessing. And then you have this around surrendering, which is a big word for a lot of people, to surrender and let go and trust and know that everything will be good for them.

Gillian: It's hard. Yeah. We don't get trained how to do it. We don't talk about that, really.

Moira: No.

Gillian: And we're actually trained not to surrender. We're trained to be strong, do everything yourself. And we're encouraged, even from childhood. And I noticed I have my two little girls now who are much older, but when they were little, I would notice myself telling them to pull back, to hold it in, not surrender to the emotions or the moment or the feelings, like, well, no, be strong, don't do that. Don't cry. And you just go, oh, no, feel it. Feel all the feel. Don't be ashamed of. If you're going to cry, cry. If you need to scream, scream. Like, let it out. I'm here for that. And I just think it's such a powerful thing now for us, because when you can surrender and do the bad, you can also surrender to the good. And you realize, like, it's we nothing happened. Peter's still there. He still loves to know. And me, I've just been able to let go and realize that I was safe in my own self. All know, I don't need someone else to make me feel safe. I'm here, I'm me, and I'm just being more authentic by letting myself feel all the.

Moira: You’re. That's right know, I think about the other week, I was feeling sad, and I said, Chris, what's up? I said, I don't know. I'm feeling sad. He goes, what about it? I said, I don't know. I just woke up and I'm feeling sad. And I said, I want to cry, but I don't think I can cry because I can laugh easier at something or smile at something. But the crying because like you're saying, I was also brought up very the strong girl, the first entrepreneur at a young age and first one that went to your university, all those kinds of things.

Gillian: Right.

Moira: But to let go and just let that emotion because you're holding it in your body, it's not a good thing, right?

Gillian: Yeah. And if you hold too much of it, you're not making room for the next wave of emotion.

Moira: Yes.

Gillian: Right. You're actually like by feeling it all the way through to its rupture. Yeah. Quiet. Put on the sad song. Put on the sad movie. There's a great author, Gina, I'm having a moment. She has a concept called Trash bagging. Gosh, I'm going to send you the book. It's a great book. Yeah. We'll add it Trash Bagging where she yeah, we'll add it to the notes or something. Sorry, because I'm just blanking. Right. In a second, she talks about trash bagging when she's having a bad day or something is going on where she literally feels so bad. She goes, I'm going to feel the worst I can. And she puts on her most comfortable sweats, grossest clothes. She actually physically cuts a hole in a trash bag and puts it on a body, and she goes, I'm just going to embrace this feeling of wow until I want to be over with it and just let it go. And I was like, that's a fascinating idea. I've never tried it myself, but it is this concept of like yeah, just letting it be what it is and stop trying to move it on too quickly because if you don't feel it through, it stays there and then you don't have room for the joy that follows it. We need the dark to feel the light. If you're just happy all the time, you forget what happy feels like. You need the wave.

Moira: Yeah. When I'm quiet, I'm just, again, really listening.

Gillian: I think I'm just talking endlessly, so.

Moira: I go, oh, no, not at all. I'm a good listener anyway. But no, I'm taking in exactly what you're saying so it goes deep within me and then I know that, again, the listeners will get that because this is about a heartfelt conversation that we're having and coming from the heart and sharing. Like you said, if you forgot a name, I forget things all the time. Just send it to me if you remember it. We'll put it on the show notes later on and it'll be there. But we'll put trash bagging down.

Gillian: They can google that.

Moira: I kind of would like to do an energy summary with the dragon and the tiger. So, people really get that as we come closer to the close of our beautiful conversation today. Is that good for you, Julian?

Gillian: Yeah, of break and again, I break it all down in my book and really spend a lot of time dissecting each of the energies so that we can truly get a feeling for who we are at a given point, knowing that it changes. But for a quick kind of little, albeit oversimplified summary, let's think about the dragon. And the dragon tends to be controlled and focused, where the tiger tends to be open and radiant, the counter to that energy. The dragon has a sense of being grounded and purpose driven, whereas the tiger is more wild and emotion driven. Where the dragon seeks challenge, tiger seeks love and nurture. The dragon is single task oriented, where the tiger is multitasking oriented, wants to do a lot. The dragon wants freedom and release, whereas the tiger prefers to gather and fill up. The dragon likes to make big things small. Tiger likes to make small things big. The dragon forgets, tiger remembers it's great. The dragon needs admiration and appreciation, whereas the tiger needs reassurance and attention. Lastly, the dragon wants to be needed and respected, whereas tiger wants safety and connection. That's a little summary. Again, we both want all of it different degrees at different times. Sometimes one column will be much more important than the other.

Moira: Yeah, I think what you just share for people to understand the contrasting energy traits, like you said, we want it all, but what are we drawn to know? That was extremely Gillian, thank you. You're welcome. Would you like to share the gift that you'd like to give to our listeners today? Each one of my guests do that. It's really for me and for my guests to thank the listeners for taking the time to join this community and support this community.

Gillian: Yeah, absolutely. I would love to offer whoever write in and participate to you a copy of my book. It'll either be depending on location, either be an e version I am the e book, or if you're close by, I can get you a physical one. So, yeah, I'd love to do that as a gift.

Moira: Okay, that's wonderful. And please note all the links where you can find Jillian and this opportunity to receive her gift. And the trash bagging will be below in the show. Gillian. Ah, take a deep breath for my side, that's for sure. Thank you for sharing from your heart and your soul your wisdom on the law of polarity in creating and living your best life. Namaste.

Gillian: Namaste.

Outro: Thank you for listening to the Heart Soul Wisdom podcast with Moira Sutton. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. Please join our community@moirasutton.com and continue the discussion on our Facebook page. Create the Life you love. You will be part of a global movement connecting with other heart centered people who are consciously creating the life they love on their own terms. Together, we can raise our consciousness for the greater good of humanity and for our planet.